Unknown engine hours

[brianlara 3]

Originally Posted by matthidinger

Especially since this is my first boat and I have almost zero diesel engine experience I agree that hiring a pro seems like a worthwhile investment. Do you have any advice to ensure I hire someone who is actually an expert in this area? Can I trust hiring a surveyor who has diesel experience to cover the engine concerns as well as the whole-boat survey?

You don't want a surveyor for the engine opinion.
Me, I'd go to a local diesel.....diesel, engine reconditioning workshop. Possibly one of the guys who assembles engines would come to the boat after work for a quick hundred. You don't want a machinist because they often aren't actually 'engine builders' per se'.
And just because an engine builder has done 500 engines doesn't mean he has physicall seen and listened to 200 near dead motors.
How about a mobile marine mechanic? If you think he's hustling spend another 100 with someone else.
Reasonably important...the engine is already warm when he arrives....not critical because blow-by is readily detectable on a cold motor even when cranking. Warm-hot is best but not essential. If you PM me I'll give you my cell # for 24x7 advice. The Australian VA pay me to be useful when there is need.
Edit: even valve failure can be assessed during cranking if the injector pump is in the 'stop' position.
Much can be told by expert eyes and ears in five minutes. Even actually doing a compression test is often not necessary. "Blow by" and noises are the tell tales.
Injectors and pumps are another story again but crook pumps and dribbly injectors are mere bagatelles when compared to piston sealing. A noisy timing chain on a Perkins engine is no deal breaker e.g.
Were it a boat I was buying five minutes in a warm engine room is all I need...NO TOOLS!
And you'll find someone capable, especially if you let it be known that a 'dud motor' diagnosis will produce no further income from the expert.
Just call, despite having a tiny boat, I neither need nor want your money.

[JSSailem]

Welcome to the boating forum Matt.
Where in the PNW are you located? Might help to provide suggestions.
Bought my boat in Seattle. No engine hours on a Perkins 4.107 from 1974, history of over heating. Cleaned out the cooling system, installed a new pump and seal, new hoses. Now it purrs like a kitten. Had a bit of issue with a BMW (boat marina worker) who claimed to be a diesel mechanic. Then read the manual and with the help of the folks on this forum learned that most of the issues can be learned and resolved. The Yanmar is a good engine. The engine oil test is a good idea as long as the oil has not been recently changed. It tests the particulates in the oil to tell you what's going on inside the engine.
John

[Geek_Guy]

My trusted diesel guy has a first question for me everytime I worry about my engine. "does it start easily" . That seems to be another indication of a worn out engine.

Also beware that older boats may rattle and sound 'bad' though it may not be the engine. My engine enclosure and other things will rattle and make me think the engine has a problem.

[Geek_Guy]

Sorry for second post. My brain always engages just after I hit the submit.

I always use recommendations from someone or several someones to select my helpers. Ask people at a marina, sailmaker, even brokers. The marina staff often know who's good and who to trust. Picking the wrong guy can be really bad.

Also second the time well spent for an engine guy. I did that for our current boat, and it was well worth the service call just to pick his brain about the engine. He can spend 10 minutes to give you a little education. Show you the lift pump, and how to bleed. Where the assorted pieces are.

[Rhapsody-NS27]

Engine hours alone does not determine the actual condition. Really need to get eyes on it. Like mentioned before, one engine can have low hours and be worthless and another could have 8,000 hours and still have many more ahead of it. It comes down to how it was taken care of.


I have a 2GM for my boat. While it needed some cleaning up, I started taking things off of it and saw I had a lot more work I needed to do. I ended up taking it off the boat, to the house, and did a top end rebuild. Before, it was very sluggish, but it did work. Since I don't have experience with diesels either, I thought it was normal. But as I disassembled the engine, I found the cooling passages were mostly clogged with minerals, and debris, exhaust valves were mostly clogged, exhaust mixer had a lot of built up rust, one of the pistons was cracked, fuel pump was near dead... and after $2000 in parts and a few months over last winter, I cleaned it up and put it back together again. Now sitting in the garage waiting to be put back into service on the boat.


It was a lot of work and I learned a lot about my engine. It will certainly help to get someone who knows what they're doing to take a look.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Geek_Guy

My trusted diesel guy has a first question for me everytime I worry about my engine. "does it start easily" . That seems to be another indication of a worn out engine.

That is probably THE biggest indicator, I have been around farm Diesels that were so worn it took ether even on a warm day, and yet they ran for years more.
A worn low compression starts with grinding on the starter, white smoke initially out the exhaust that will turn to grey and then black once she gets going, but it will slowly begin to run, you keep the starter on until it accelerates to a speed higher than it was on starter alone, then you disengage the starter.

This is due to cold Wx not low compression, but is about the same

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRmm4xp9iAw

[JSSailem]

Originally Posted by Rhapsody-NS27

Now sitting in the garage waiting to be put back into service on the boat.

Have you tried to start it and let it run in the Garage? Might be a good idea prior to installing it on the boat.

[donradcliffe]

Is the Gm10 saltwater cooled, and what should he check for if it is??

If you want to see how the motor should run, there are quite a few Youtube videos.

[Cheechako]

As mentioned early on, if it runs well, looks good and isn't leaking it's probably a good risk. It's not an expensive boat (or shouldn't be) you could spend a lot on a mechanic. Up to you of course.
Be sure to do a sea trial and run it hard watching the temperature gauge. On one of my big boats, the surveyor would run the boat at full speed in forward and go to reverse, then power up to stop the boat fast. He did this like 3 times testing transmission and etc. It made me nervous, but your surveyor should have some input on the drive train for sure.... not just off load responsibility to you having an engine survey.

[Rhapsody-NS27]

Originally Posted by JSSailem

Have you tried to start it and let it run in the Garage? Might be a good idea prior to installing it on the boat.

yes, ran it a few times and sounds SO much better.

https://youtu.be/iejk2PM5b-8

https://youtu.be/6DOqaOqdOEw

[mattman]

Thanks so much for the tips everyone -- it is much appreciated!

So I went to check her out today and overall she was in great condition, but -- this this is a big but -- they wouldn't start the engine for me, claiming that over the last few days they had issues getting her to full RPM. In fact it was well below max RPM, maxing out around 2300. They pulled the boat and did a prop alignment as well as a few other adjustments to the engine but still aren't "satisfied" with the engine. Of course, neither am I. The broker said their mechanic is going to continue working on it until she's back to normal, but suffice to say I'm a little worried. The engine is obviously why this otherwise pristine boat has remained on the market for the past few months.

Elsewhere, the rigging was in "ok" condition. The spreaders were very visibly corroded even from deck level. The mast looked pretty worn down. But I'm definitely a sailing neophyte so hard for me to judge unless I get a good surveyor out here, which I plan to do if they get the engine in good working condition.

That said, this is obviously a red flag for me, but if the mechanic is able to get the engine cold starting regularly, and demonstrates it running at max RPM (3600) for ~5mins with no obvious smoke, heat, or noise, would I be taking an inordinate risk with this boat?

Thanks all for your continued guidance!

[Stu Jackson]

Matt,

Do you know about these skippers?

Maintenance & Mechanical

Might want to ask there, too.

[bill good]

Check RPM with an optical tacho meter. The Yanmar tacho can be out. Both of mine were & I waisted dollars on redoing props trying to get the RPM up! Have you got a compression reading yet?

[mattman]

Originally Posted by bill good

Check RPM with an optical tacho meter. The Yanmar tacho can be out. Both of mine were & I waisted dollars on redoing props trying to get the RPM up! Have you got a compression reading yet?

Apparently the mechanic did use an optical tachometer, since the gauge was misreporting. I haven't done a compression test yet but I plan to hire my own mechanic to inspect it, if they are able to get it in good working order.