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Old 23-09-2017, 08:15   #1
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Universal M3-20B: Is Hand Crank Possible? Does It Have A Power Take-Off?

For those that own or are knowledgeable of the Universal M3-20B,
Does it have a PTO or some way to run a hydraulic pump or/and air compressor off it?
Can it be hand started (hand cranked) when batteries are out of juice?
What is needed to accomplish this?
Thanks for the help.
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Old 23-09-2017, 08:19   #2
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Re: Universal M3-20B: Is Hand Carnk Possible? Does It Have A Power Take-Off?

The Kubota block on which it's based has a power take off, but Universal used it for the water pump">raw water pump. No way to hand crank that I can see, unless you put a ratchet on the crankshaft pulley. Sounds like a good way to get your arm ripped off.

Best plan is to make sure your batteries don't go flat.
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Old 23-09-2017, 10:12   #3
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Re: Universal M3-20B: Is Hand Carnk Possible? Does It Have A Power Take-Off?

For a diesel to be hand crank startable you need a big flywheel and compression releases as well as a way to crank it. Haven't seen any of the new 'lightweight' diesels that could be hand cranked.

Hand cranked my old MD2 Volvo for a decade or more but it had all the above. Engage the compression releases, get that big old flywheel turning as fast as possible then drop one compression release. The inertia in the flywheel would almost always carry the engines rotation though one compression stroke and that cylinder would fire. Then drop the other cylinder's compression release and we were off. Even cranked an MD3 but it was a real bear with the friction from another cylinder.
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Old 23-09-2017, 14:21   #4
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Re: Universal M3-20B: Is Hand Carnk Possible? Does It Have A Power Take-Off?

@roverhi, yes, that is what i hope to do. Have done it on some in the past and assumed this would remain an safety feature forever. Not sure if there is something preventing newer ones from using this?

> "Best plan is to make sure your batteries don't go flat. "
I feel 100% sure eventually that plan will fail and given i sail in remote locations, service stations are often many months apart, batteries fail, charging systems fail, starter motors fail, etc. etc.

> "The Kubota block on which it's based has a power take off, but Universal used it for the water pump">raw water pump. "
Yes MarkSF, that is what i saw also, but i was not sure. That is a reason I was eyeing the Beta engines if i ever did a restore/repower.

Does a clutch system exist that could tie into the crankshaft pulley or ride tandem on the waterpump? Are transmission available that would bypass power to a hydraulic pump and air compressor? I have only seen this on very very large boats.
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Old 23-09-2017, 14:27   #5
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Re: Universal M3-20B: Is Hand Carnk Possible? Does It Have A Power Take-Off?

Background information perhaps missing but largely irrelevant: i am looking at a used boat with an almost new M3-20B in it, i would NOT have chosen a M3-20B. I am needing a hydraulic pump for long spooled davits and other research equipment (my phd is in aquatic ecology). Two stages of air compressors are needed to fill scuba tanks (no i do not want to consider a second motor for this, it is a small boat).
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Old 24-09-2017, 15:41   #6
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Re: Universal M3-20B: Is Hand Carnk Possible? Does It Have A Power Take-Off?

I've seen many pro boats with jack shafts running directly off the front crank pulley.
Any decent engineer would soon fabricate one. Might need a 2:1 reduction on it though? What revs is cruising for the Universal?
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Old 24-09-2017, 16:35   #7
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Re: Universal M3-20B: Is Hand Carnk Possible? Does It Have A Power Take-Off?

Never been up close to an M3-20, but my Universal M15 has a second take off point at the rear of the cam shaft. Raw water pump is on the front of the cam shaft. There should be a plate held on with 4 screws and the back end of the shaft is behind that. On the tractor version a hydraulic pump attaches there.
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Old 24-09-2017, 20:39   #8
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Re: Universal M3-20B: Is Hand Crank Possible? Does It Have A Power Take-Off?

We managed to start a Perkins 4-108 4 cyl 40bhp in the 1984 Hobart by winding an 8mm line around the fridge compressor pully (about 100mm diam), taking it through a block on the top of the engine, marrying it to a 16mm genoa sheet and putting six strong blokes down the middle of the boat. No decompression levers and got her second pull! The engine was known from that moment as Mr Victor Perkins, Victor being the brand name of a popular Oz motor mower.

Similarly managed 9 starts out of 10 on a Peterson 37 with a 15bhp 2 cyl Arona using a bit of seat belt webbing around the flywheel through a block on a pipe cot abeam, through a block attached to the mast and out the hatch to the cockpit. Two below and two on deck got her nearly every time. Need I say? Mr Victor Arona!
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Old 24-09-2017, 21:47   #9
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Re: Universal M3-20B: Is Hand Crank Possible? Does It Have A Power Take-Off?

There are spring starters, which are pretty simple & reliable. You wind up the spring, & it's motive force turns the engine over when you trigger it. Do a search & you'll find lots of posts on them.
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Old 25-09-2017, 15:11   #10
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Re: Universal M3-20B: Is Hand Carnk Possible? Does It Have A Power Take-Off?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
For a diesel to be hand crank startable you need a big flywheel and compression releases as well as a way to crank it. Haven't seen any of the new 'lightweight' diesels that could be hand cranked.

Hand cranked my old MD2 Volvo for a decade or more but it had all the above. Engage the compression releases, get that big old flywheel turning as fast as possible then drop one compression release. The inertia in the flywheel would almost always carry the engines rotation though one compression stroke and that cylinder would fire. Then drop the other cylinder's compression release and we were off. Even cranked an MD3 but it was a real bear with the friction from another cylinder.

yep - if a diesel has been designed to be hand cranked, it can be hand cranked. Dont think any such engines have been manufactured/marketed in the west in the last 30 or more years (they are pretty common around SE Asia on long boats, but they just dont seem to be available in the west). I have a yanmar 2qm20 with a hand crank and decompressor but the engine was not designed to be, and cant be started by hand - not enough weight in the flywheel - so putting a hand crank on your engine wont help much. I'm afraid plan B for a non-starter diesel is the sails.
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Old 25-09-2017, 16:57   #11
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Re: Universal M3-20B: Is Hand Crank Possible? Does It Have A Power Take-Off?

It's also been suggest that with some fabrication to support it, you could mount a small 2-cycle engine on the main engine. Start the little one with a pull cord, like an outboard. And use it's motive force to get the diesel spinning at speed. Then when the diesel comes to life, the pony engine automatically decouples or declutches.
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Old 25-09-2017, 17:21   #12
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Re: Universal M3-20B: Is Hand Crank Possible? Does It Have A Power Take-Off?

Could you take the raw water pump off, and replace it with an electric one?
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Old 26-09-2017, 11:09   #13
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Re: Universal M3-20B: Is Hand Crank Possible? Does It Have A Power Take-Off?

I just want to say thanks to all these ideas. I have emails out to the manufacturer to investigate a couple of them. I hope to respond with an articulate message and clarifying questions soon. But felt i should say thanks real quick.
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