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Old 21-03-2019, 14:47   #1
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Universal M20 Head Scrathcher

So in my experience, diesels need 3 things to run, fuel, air, and compression, however, the dang thing just isn't starting. So here is what is happening, and what I've done, the engine rolls over just it does so slowly, but not fast enough to fire, so I checked the batteries a little low about 70% charge so figured I'd start by making sure they were 100% and try again, still no dice, but rolling faster now. Ok so next step fuel, so I swapped all the filters and bled the lines, still nothing. Double checked the fuel pump,and yep it's clicking away merrily, ok so maybe the issue is with the kill, nope. Air? pulled the air box cover off removed the filter and felt to see if the engine is sucking air in when it cranks, yep sure is..ok maybe compression .... so borrowed a compression tester, compression checks out too... so ok I have fuel, air, and compression... maybe it start if I give it a squirt of starting ether.... still no.... so am I missing something some where?
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Old 21-03-2019, 15:50   #2
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Re: Universal M20 Head Scrathcher

Ok you are on the right track but have you checked the injectors are spraying? If they are hard to remove just try cracking the line at the injector first.
It's most likely the fuel somewhere if you are positive the kill system is ok. Strange that it wont start with ether tho. Let us know what you find
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Old 21-03-2019, 16:01   #3
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Re: Universal M20 Head Scrathcher

Is there Fuel at the injectors when you bleed ?
Is the fuel look ok? like fuel?
Lastly you need fuel, air, compression, and it has to inject at the right time, Injection timing is important.
BUT i would first thing find the cable for the engine stop lever on the injection pump, the one that stops the engine, make sure the lever is in the un applied position, I lost a solid day once chasing a no start from a failed stop cable.
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Old 21-03-2019, 16:08   #4
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Re: Universal M20 Head Scrathcher

Ditto, check for fuel at the injector nut. Slack all the nuts, place rags to catch the fuel. Crank until you get fuel w/o bubbles.

If you have fuel at the injector, then somewhere there's a stop solenoid not working or throttle cable not putting the injector pump lever in the correct position.


If it's real cold. you may need heat. The air temp has to be raised to about 500F during compression to start. If the engine has been sitting all winter in cold weather it may not be reaching ignition temperature. Sometimes a hair dryer, pointed into the intake will be enough. Or heat the engine room.
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Old 22-03-2019, 08:52   #5
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Re: Universal M20 Head Scrathcher

ok so I pulled the lines off the injectors plenty of fuel no bubbles, so I warmed every thing up to about 85-90F for 2 hours to make sure it the engine was good and warm still nada and last time the engine ran was just over 2 weeks ago ...goint to rip into the kill system for real and rebuild it, I'll get back to you guys thanks for the input everyone
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Old 22-03-2019, 09:02   #6
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Re: Universal M20 Head Scrathcher

Actually small diesels in our boats need 3 things to run.
FUEL
FUEL
FUEL

Thats it. If your engine was running fine before it's not the injector pump or timing or compression. None of those things would change just sitting around. That leaves fuel.

Do you have fuel in the tank? If so then then start figuring out where the issue is. Because you have swapped out filters and bled the engine I'd strongly suspect that your stop solenoid or cable is the culprit. On the mechanical part that moves and actually does the job spray PB Blaster on it. Also disconnect the cable/solenoid completely and move it by hand. Can you move it the full range without it sticking? Does it spring back? It needs to move super easy. Then make sure it is in the go position. Try starting your engine. There is a very fine line where it will/will not run. It is not a gradual line so it needs to be in the run position. I had an engine (clients) that would not start. The solenoid had it in the run position but in fact was probably 1/16" from being there.

If your positive it is in the run position then start at the fuel filters and bleed each spot. Fuel filters, mechanical pump, injector pump, injectors.

Note. How are you bleeding the system? Do you have an electric pump in line or are you using the lever on the mechanical pump? If you have an electric pump then your problem is your mechanical pump. You bleed with the electric pump and all looks great and it still doesn't run or run for long. I had this issue. The mechanical pump was weak and worked for varying amounts of time. Very frustrating.
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Old 22-03-2019, 09:30   #7
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Re: Universal M20 Head Scrathcher

Thanks Mark going to try the PB and see if that helps, it moves pretty easy by hand but you never know, I can't readily see 1/16 of an inch, just might work lol
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Old 22-03-2019, 11:26   #8
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Re: Universal M20 Head Scrathcher

Have you checked that the glow plugs are working and are you giving them enough time to heat up before attempting a start?


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Old 22-03-2019, 17:15   #9
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Re: Universal M20 Head Scrathcher

I'll take an offbeat look and say go back to electric. Namely enough to start the engine. You mentioned you improved the batteries, and it cranked 'faster', maybe not fast enough? It seems you addressed the fuel? It would seem unusual for injectors, compression, timing would just go out?
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Old 22-03-2019, 22:58   #10
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Re: Universal M20 Head Scrathcher

Second the electrical question. Check all grounds, especially the hi-amp ones. Same with the positives, but grounds seem to be more often the problem. Keep in mind that a cable can look fine but be internally corroded. A good 'shade-tree test' is to compare the cables for uniform flexibility. And comparatively stiff or hard spots indicate a problem with that cable.

Proper starting speed is very important; that the engine doesn't fire on ether points away from a fuel problem.
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Old 23-03-2019, 00:59   #11
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Re: Universal M20 Head Scrathcher

Is what you are bleeding diesel fuel? If it is water you will have problems.


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Old 23-03-2019, 09:01   #12
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Re: Universal M20 Head Scrathcher

Fuel
Air
AND SPARK
Sounds like you've checked everything on the fuel and air side.
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Old 23-03-2019, 09:17   #13
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Re: Universal M20 Head Scrathcher

Davesim check the fuel for water content. Stored over winter condensation can build up in the tank. Add some water adsorber to the fuel and try again. Do you have an electric kill switch? It needs a current to keep the fuel flowing. Broken wire or loose connection can kill the motor. It will fun with bad injectors or glow plugs, not well but will start. My feeling is fuel or kill switch problem. Keep us posted! Dave
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Old 23-03-2019, 09:32   #14
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Re: Universal M20 Head Scrathcher

she's not stored as it were over winter, and the fuel is new, it gets burned all winter long both in the engine itself and fed into the day tank for my heater, as it turns out I go through far more fuel in winter than I do in warmer months lol, but it being a fresh tank some water may have inadvertently been loaded but I don't see any sign of water in the fuel I've been getting out while bleeding or changing the filters.
Tomorrow I'm going to be replacing the cable for the kill and cleaning and lubing the engine stop, and going through all the grounds and leads and seeing if that doesn't do something...
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Old 23-03-2019, 12:22   #15
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Re: Universal M20 Head Scrathcher

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seasic View Post
Fuel
Air
AND SPARK
Sounds like you've checked everything on the fuel and air side.
No spark. It's a diesel
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