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Old 22-11-2014, 08:29   #1
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ULSD and old engines

I am in Rio Dulce Guatemala. I have a choice of two fuel stations. One sells imported ULSD and the other "regular" diesel, which is probably a higher sulfur biodiesel. Right now my tank is about ten percent full of regular fuel at least a year old. My engine is a 27 year old Yanmar 4JHE with plenty of hours.

I know you folks in the US no longer have a choice, but since I do, should I fill with ULSD or regular biodiesel? I'm concerned that the ULSD may not have the lubricity required for my older engine; although it will be mixed 9:1 with regular fuel in any case.


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Old 22-11-2014, 08:50   #2
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Re: ULSD and old engines

And the biodiesel may be incompatible with your engine's seals and fuel components.

If you are leaving, and just filling the tank, I wouldn't worry about either hurting your engine. If I was given a long-term choice, I would pick the ULSD.

You could fill 50/50. Also, aren't there lubricity additives?

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Old 22-11-2014, 11:05   #3
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Re: ULSD and old engines

ULSD is supposed to be backwards compatible with older engines......
As to the other fuel....it's either regular old diesel or biodiesel...but not both. I'd be surprised if you find any biodiesel up the rio.


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Old 22-11-2014, 20:37   #4
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Re: ULSD and old engines

Sure, I could be wrong about that. I know that in both Colombia and Panama all diesel was 10% biodiesel by law, and I presumed it was the same here. I'll ask. At any rate that hasn't caused me any problems. However this is the first place I've been with ULSD. I do know it's great for cleaning varnish brushes.


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Old 23-11-2014, 08:30   #5
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Re: ULSD and old engines

sulfur offers the lubrication you need for the old diesel. I have a 41 years old petters diesel I have rebuild it my self.


I use diesel one ie tug boat, commercial diesel. engine could be happier
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Old 23-11-2014, 10:17   #6
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Re: ULSD and old engines

Avoid ulsd if possible. As previously noted the sulphur is a lubricant. We do still have a choice in the US. Marine diesel does not have to be ULSD just like marine gas does not have ethanol. I get my diesel from the same truck that the local commercial fishermen use. You might want to look into doing that.
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Old 23-11-2014, 10:46   #7
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Re: ULSD and old engines

There may be some bio diesel in the local fuel but it definitely does not smell like frying food in downtown Fronteras. In Costa Rica they use lots of palm oil in their fuel. So much that we saw a US Navy Destroyer re-fueling in Golfito.
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Old 25-11-2014, 04:54   #8
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Re: ULSD and old engines

OK Guys,

Please explain to this poor Australian what you are talking about with ULSD and BiDiesel? Here is Oz, we simply fill up with desel so don't know bout these other fuels.

Live long and prosper!
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Old 25-11-2014, 05:05   #9
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Re: ULSD and old engines

ULSD = ultra low sulphur diesel....all the extra sulphur roved and replaced with synthetic lubricity additives.

BioDiesel = diesels made from veggie oil treated with lye. Can be blended with fossil diesel, destroys rubber seals in older engines.


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Old 25-11-2014, 05:51   #10
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Re: ULSD and old engines

Wow,
A lot of dis-information. Right now I'm in the middle gaining approval for the new GE turboprop to burn S10 Diesel In Brazil, that is a USLD (10 PPM) of sulphur with a 5% bio component.
By specification Bio can be either animal in origin (rare) or vegetable, soy and palm oil being very common.
Regular ole #2 Diesel is gone from the US, you can in theory get Diesel up to 1000 PPM sulfur if your a cat 3 Marine engine, but surely none of us are and I believe you have to prove your emissions are low, to get it. And they are after the big ship engines to reduce emissions as well.
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/nonroad.../420f09068.pdf

From a lubricity perspective not much beats a 20% mix of Bio, just it's hard to find, and I do not know, but suspect it may be more likely to support biological growth (bugs) in your fuel tank.
Bio is not compatible with any brass in your fuel system either, somehow the brass changes the chemical make up of the fuel? We are having to eliminate all brass from our fuel system and and we have a lot of it, all drains etc are brass.

If I could get it, I'd run old #2 high sulfur Diesel, whatever you run, use an anti-microbial additive, I've had good luck with Biobor jf. I am sure there are many other fine ones.

It's actually the ULSD that has caused problems with some rubber components in older engines, but one problem with bio fuel is it essentially has no standards, try looking up the ASTM standard for bio and see what you find.

The ASTM for Diesel fuel is D975 I believe
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Old 25-11-2014, 07:11   #11
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Re: ULSD and old engines

What is the sum total of the disinformation? I see some lack of info, but disinfo....


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Old 25-11-2014, 07:21   #12
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Re: ULSD and old engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
A lot of dis-information.

….
It's actually the ULSD that has caused problems with some rubber components in older engines, but one problem with bio fuel is it essentially has no standards, try looking up the ASTM standard for bio and see what you find.
Will Biodiesel damage seals and other components? - BioCube™

FAQ biodiesel - FAQ : Volvo Penta

Biodiesel threat to yacht engines | Yachting Monthly

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Old 25-11-2014, 07:45   #13
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Re: ULSD and old engines

I just called the fuel delivery company that I've used for years. I haven't had to refill for a few year due to a total refit I'm doing on the boat. The fuel delivery company told me that the can no longer sell the old diesel. Even commercial boats have to use the ULSD. The price quoted to me today was $3.19 per gallon delivered to my house. The local marina is selling it for $4.00 per gallon today so it's not only more convenient but it's cheaper. For anyone fueling up I recommend finding out who the commercial fisherman use for fuel before going to a marina.
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Old 26-11-2014, 06:04   #14
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Re: ULSD and old engines

Thanks Sailmonkey, guess you all had better come Oz and buy diesel, however ours costs around $A1.80 a litre which is around $A7.20 a gallon!!!
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Old 09-12-2014, 17:37   #15
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Re: ULSD and old engines

Sulfur is not the source of lubricity - stripping out the sulfur at the refinery also strips out aromatics that help with lubricity

Biodiesel will help with lubricity however it can be corrosive in your system - it has higher solvency

ULSD is fine but recommend an additive that enhances lubricity

It is copper that is an issue in the fuel system - it is all related to stability and corrosion

ULSD is a nicer environment for the bugs - so keep the water out


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