Twin Disk TMC60P Stuck In Gear

[SpaceRnglr]

Need some advice on my Twin Disk TMC60P transmission mounted to a Lombardini LDW 2204 MT with 5,000 hours. The motor is 25 years old, but the transmission is only 3-4 years old.

The transmission gets stuck in gear and wont come out, especially in reverse. I just replaced the morse controller, throttle cable, and gear cable and they all work perfectly. 2 months ago when it got stuck you could put a wrench around the linkage on the transmission and pry it out of gear, but now that is sometimes impossible. This weekend we were at anchor (engine off) stuck in reverse. I was finally able to get it back to neutral by using the starter to rotate the shaft a bit so maybe the position makes a small amount of difference. Either way, getting on my mooring makes me nervous and I can't take it anywhere near a dock. Transmission oil is between the marks and clean, so that's not the problem.

The diesel mechanic who fixed the motor just before I bought the boat in June says the problem is likely the cones, clutch and / or linkage fork inside the transmission. He says it can be fixed, but to service the transmission the engine must be removed. That will be expensive even if it is an easy fix of the actual transmission. Since the motor has 5,000 hours, needs a rebuild, and Lombardinis are very rare around here, he says just replace motor and transmission. I had planned to do that anyway, but was hoping to use the current setup for another year or so and hence the dilemma.

My questions. Has anyone ever faced this problem and is there an easy fix? Is removing the engine really required (i have decent side and front access, but its not great...). Thoughts are most appreicated.

[Diesel Bill]

Checking Twin Disc's model header shows a TMC 40P or a TMC 60E. Both models are current, hydraulic transmissions using a selector valve, manually or electrically shifted. If the lever is stuck in a certain position this would indicate a frozen (stuck) valve or shifter shaft. If internally stuck would indicate warped clutch components. I haven't worked on a twin disc for many years so not current on late models. Don't know if they use cone clutches or plate clutches now. If you're using a wrench to pry the linkage sounds like a frozen shifter shaft. Try spraying some solvent lube and work it back and forth for a while with engine OFF! Hope you get it sorted out. Hopefully some one with more info will add to this. Good luck.

[Captsteve53]

I Would Con cur with Diesel Bill,- the TMC 60 transmission clutch-unit is a bronze double cone and the coupling device is mechanically servo controlled.
Meaning more than likely the issue lies in the controlling body:

From the Repair manual: Quote:

If, after using the reverse-gear unit for a long time, shifting (from forward speed to neutral or from reverse speed to neutral)
becomes particularly difficult, it is advisable first to check the status of the control cable and of its relevant box.
Then, if necessary, unlock the nut ref. 59 (spanner 13) and mantein the screw ref. 31 in its position with an alien wrench
(4 mm.). Than rotate clockwise the screw ref. 31 by a 1/4 of turn and lock the nut ref. 59.

Cheers Steve

[SpaceRnglr]

Originally Posted by Captsteve53

Then, if necessary, unlock the nut ref. 59 (spanner 13) and mantein the screw ref. 31 in its position with an alien wrench

(4 mm.). Than rotate clockwise the screw ref. 31 by a 1/4 of turn and lock the nut ref. 59.



Cheers Steve

Steve-any chance you have a picture showing which nuts and screws are being referred to?

[Captsteve53]

Originally Posted by SpaceRnglr

Steve-any chance you have a picture showing which nuts and screws are being referred to?

OK, Couple of things first , I note the manual I have is for the end suffix E Where you say yours is P therefore not sure if in this area they are the same, I'm not in a position to copy /scan the diagram right at present (may be later),

But looking at diagram (Typical Italiano!!-not all there- Joke!)

Any way the selector shaft it's self (the shaft the selector arm is clamped to) in this manual has a locking nut either on the outside of the selector arm or on the inside (in some models) (these nuts are not the clamping bolt) but on the shaft it's self (with me so far?), then at the very end of the shaft (inside) is an Allen hex key, SO the adjustment is to loosen the nut and turn the shaft as per instructions above and lock up again,???????

Whats happening is you are changing internally the location of the cam that engages the forward reverse,

So first up check if your P model has this internal Allen key hole in the end of your selector shaft on the trans,

Until later


Cheers Steve

[Captsteve53]

Trying here to download ? diagram

Cheers Steve

[bikesherpa]

Originally Posted by SpaceRnglr

Need some advice on my Twin Disk TMC60P transmission mounted to a Lombardini LDW 2204 MT with 5,000 hours. The motor is 25 years old, but the transmission is only 3-4 years old.

The transmission gets stuck in gear and wont come out, especially in reverse. I just replaced the morse controller, throttle cable, and gear cable and they all work perfectly. 2 months ago when it got stuck you could put a wrench around the linkage on the transmission and pry it out of gear, but now that is sometimes impossible. This weekend we were at anchor (engine off) stuck in reverse. I was finally able to get it back to neutral by using the starter to rotate the shaft a bit so maybe the position makes a small amount of difference. Either way, getting on my mooring makes me nervous and I can't take it anywhere near a dock. Transmission oil is between the marks and clean, so that's not the problem.

The diesel mechanic who fixed the motor just before I bought the boat in June says the problem is likely the cones, clutch and / or linkage fork inside the transmission. He says it can be fixed, but to service the transmission the engine must be removed. That will be expensive even if it is an easy fix of the actual transmission. Since the motor has 5,000 hours, needs a rebuild, and Lombardinis are very rare around here, he says just replace motor and transmission. I had planned to do that anyway, but was hoping to use the current setup for another year or so and hence the dilemma.

My questions. Has anyone ever faced this problem and is there an easy fix? Is removing the engine really required (i have decent side and front access, but its not great...). Thoughts are most appreicated.

If you have space, you can try to move the engine forward to dismount the transmission while in the boat. You just need 5cm of extra space or so.

Are you sure you have a LDW 2204 MT and it's 25 years old? AFAIK, that engine has been introduced on the market in the early 2000s . The previous model was the LDW 2004 MT.

[SpaceRnglr]

Has anyone tried the adjustment described above? Did it work?

Captsteve53 - that drawing looks like what I thought you were trying to describe. I will certainly try the adjustment next time I am on the boat (may be a couple weeks...). Out of curriosity, what is that allen screw actually adjusting? I can't tell from the diagram...

Originally Posted by bikesherpa

Are you sure you have a LDW 2204 MT and it's 25 years old? AFAIK, that engine has been introduced on the market in the early 2000s . The previous model was the LDW 2004 MT.

Bikesherpa, I am not 100% sure what motor I have. The engine has no identification plate on it and the boat came with no records. The hull is from 1994 and the previous owner told me the engine was original. Looking at pictures of the 2204 and 2004 they look very similar, maybe the only sure bet way to know is to check the bore but I'm not taking off the cylinder head without good reason. The engine needs a rebuild / replacement but I would rather run it into the ground before replacing it so hope I can fix the transmission. I will also check to see if I can move the engine forward a few inches. I think there is space but i would also have to get the transmission out from a very awkward space. All in all I am just not sure I want to put a lot of money into such an old engine from a brand that doesn't exist in SE Asia...

[bikesherpa]

Originally Posted by SpaceRnglr

Has anyone tried the adjustment described above? Did it work?

Captsteve53 - that drawing looks like what I thought you were trying to describe. I will certainly try the adjustment next time I am on the boat (may be a couple weeks...). Out of curriosity, what is that allen screw actually adjusting? I can't tell from the diagram...




Bikesherpa, I am not 100% sure what motor I have. The engine has no identification plate on it and the boat came with no records. The hull is from 1994 and the previous owner told me the engine was original. Looking at pictures of the 2204 and 2004 they look very similar, maybe the only sure bet way to know is to check the bore but I'm not taking off the cylinder head without good reason. The engine needs a rebuild / replacement but I would rather run it into the ground before replacing it so hope I can fix the transmission. I will also check to see if I can move the engine forward a few inches. I think there is space but i would also have to get the transmission out from a very awkward space. All in all I am just not sure I want to put a lot of money into such an old engine from a brand that doesn't exist in SE Asia...

I might be able to identify the engine model if you send or post some pictures of it.
Buying and installing a 60+ HP engine will cost over $15K, but you'll have the peace of mind of a new engine and local service.
A complete overhaul of the Lombardini engine can be done by any diesel mechanic with parts purchased and shipped from abroad. They are simple engines ( e.g. mechanical geared distribution). Here in the Med where I am it would not cost more than $2K if you did some of the work yourself. Lombardini spare parts are a lot cheaper here than Volvo and Yanmar.
The only parts that are tricky to tune are the injection pumps. There are 4 separate pumps and they have to be tuned to deliver the same pressure, within a tolerance.
Regarding the transmission gear, 3 years ago I had a failure to the friction disks of a ZF transmission. It was cheaper to buy it new (with discounted price) than to have it serviced.

[seabreez]

Originally Posted by Diesel Bill

Checking Twin Disc's model header shows a TMC 40P or a TMC 60E. Both models are current, hydraulic transmissions using a selector valve, manually or electrically shifted. If the lever is stuck in a certain position this would indicate a frozen (stuck) valve or shifter shaft. If internally stuck would indicate warped clutch components. I haven't worked on a twin disc for many years so not current on late models. Don't know if they use cone clutches or plate clutches now. If you're using a wrench to pry the linkage sounds like a frozen shifter shaft. Try spraying some solvent lube and work it back and forth for a while with engine OFF! Hope you get it sorted out. Hopefully some one with more info will add to this. Good luck.

In 2015 we had a transmission that was in forward gear and that ran four hours at almost full throttle and under severe conditions and abuse. When we got to the dock, it would not shift into neutral or reverse. the transmission was removed and the clutches were warped. Replacement and new seals and underway since. Expensive but still cheaper than a replacement.

[SpaceRnglr]

Originally Posted by Captsteve53

unlock the nut ref. 59 (spanner 13) and mantein the screw ref. 31 in its position with an alien wrench (4 mm.). Than rotate clockwise the screw ref. 31 by a 1/4 of turn and lock the nut ref. 59.

Cheers Steve

I tried this today. Screw 31 has an allen wrench on the end that is accessible from the fully assembled transmission. The hex fitting on my screw 31 was filled with some sort of waxy paper that was the same color as the slightly rusty screw--I didn't even see it until the screw was removed and I got it in sunlight. Anyway, this adjustment changes the amount the shift lever arm moves the actuator in/out for forward/reverse. Once I realized what it was doing I was skeptical it would work, and in my case it didn't help. It seems the mechanic was right (usually are), I need a transmission rebuild.

I am now looking at repowering options as I just cant justify putting a lot of money into this old engine.

[SpaceRnglr]

Originally Posted by bikesherpa

I might be able to identify the engine model if you send or post some pictures of it.

Actually I got the model number wrong on my previous posts. I think it is the LDW 2204 M, not the MT. I am not exactly sure what the difference is, but all the dimensions line up perfectly with the current production LDW 2204 M. I have attached some pictures.

LDW 2204 M – Lombardini Marine

Our eventual aim is to go out cruising. If I were already doing that and had more time than money I would likely rebuilt this engine myself. At the moment my wife and I both have full time jobs and we have 2 young kids--time is perhaps more precious than money at the moment... This is such a hard decision as it is so expensive. I suppose everyone goes through the same pain...

Sorry, I don't know why the two pictures of the front of the engine won't rotate...

[bikesherpa]

Originally Posted by SpaceRnglr

Actually I got the model number wrong on my previous posts. I think it is the LDW 2204 M, not the MT. I am not exactly sure what the difference is, but all the dimensions line up perfectly with the current production LDW 2204 M. I have attached some pictures.

LDW 2204 M – Lombardini Marine

Our eventual aim is to go out cruising. If I were already doing that and had more time than money I would likely rebuilt this engine myself. At the moment my wife and I both have full time jobs and we have 2 young kids--time is perhaps more precious than money at the moment... This is such a hard decision as it is so expensive. I suppose everyone goes through the same pain...

Sorry, I don't know why the two pictures of the front of the engine won't rotate...

Your engine is the LDW 2004 M, 48 HP @3000rpm, 2068cc.
It has the exact same dimension as the newer LDW 2204 M, 60 HP @3600rpm, 2200cc.
The MT designated engines are the TURBO versions.

You should still easily find spare parts from Lombardini, if you decide the rebuild route. From you photos, the engine does not look too bad.

As an alternative to the TMC60P transmission, your engine can also mount a ZF 15 M.

Maybe you can contact Lombardini to find out if they have some service companies near you. On their web-site, they list this company as their dealer in Singapore:

Vmd Pte Ltd
VMD Pte Ltd: IVECO Official Dealer and Distributor In Singapore, South East Asia and the Asian Region (IVECO ENGINES, IVECO Defence Vehicles, IVECO Engines and IVECO Vehicle Spare Part Dealer, IVECO AIFO and IVECO Vehicle Servicing) vmdiesel@vmd.com.sg




Replacing an engine with a different one is not always easy.
There are quite a few things to consider: engine bay size, shaft alignment, mounting points, size of exhaust tube, electrical connections, transmission gear ratio and propeller pitch/diameter, etc.