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Old 20-01-2015, 09:36   #46
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Re: Turn key, push buttons, and nothing

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Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
Put your meter leads on the battery terminals and measure the voltage with no load and then when trying to start the engine.

A weak or dead battery is the most common cause of engines failing to start and is the first thing to check.
It measures well under 12 volts when I push the pre-heat button in, according to my panel meter... I'm thinking this may be the issue.
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Old 21-01-2015, 10:20   #47
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Re: Turn key, push buttons, and nothing

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ok - I believe I have determined it is NOT the start button. I attached my meter to the back of the button and watched the resistance after about a dozen pushes.

What I did hear is a bzzzz bzzzz bzzzz coming from the engine room that I don't recall hearing before.

The start battery I have is of unknown age but the voltage seems to be OK when I turn on the key (more than 12 but less than 13) but its hard to say exactly the voltage.


Maybe I need to test the battery.
It is not possible to measure the resistance of a component, without disconnecting it from the rest of the circuit. That is why we normally measure voltages across components, from which the resistance may be deduced.

Also, in low voltage systems, where currents are high, even very low resistances can be problematic but impossible to measure with a multimeter. They tend to be very inaccurate in the low ohms range, and at 10A, a resistance of even 0.5 ohms will drop 5 volts!

That's why everyone keeps telling you to measure VOLTAGE DROPS.
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Old 21-01-2015, 10:50   #48
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Re: Turn key, push buttons, and nothing

I hope you meant voltage drop not resistance while trying it in line across the button.


If you are hearing a buzzing it probably coming from your solenoid? Either a bad solenoid or battery, low or bad.


Get someone else the hit the button and see it is coming form the solenoid.
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Old 21-01-2015, 11:14   #49
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Re: Turn key, push buttons, and nothing

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Originally Posted by MarkSF View Post
It is not possible to measure the resistance of a component, without disconnecting it from the rest of the circuit. That is why we normally measure voltages across components, from which the resistance may be deduced.

Also, in low voltage systems, where currents are high, even very low resistances can be problematic but impossible to measure with a multimeter. They tend to be very inaccurate in the low ohms range, and at 10A, a resistance of even 0.5 ohms will drop 5 volts!

That's why everyone keeps telling you to measure VOLTAGE DROPS.
I would be so beneficial if every boating person would get a book on DC fundamentals 101. At least understand Ohm's law. It would save a bunch of frustration and possibly a disastrous situation.
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Old 21-01-2015, 13:00   #50
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Re: Turn key, push buttons, and nothing

Ok, looked through the whole topic
I guess You tried it all......You wrote: I even changed the starter......

LESS one thing, that happen one time to me on an older RV.

The ground wire was weak. Even so every thing looked good. All contacts checked and clean. I could get the click of the solonoid but the starter wouldn´t turn.......and all the other etc.

After adding a second big wire from the battery to the engine direct my starter turned with a healthy push...unbelievable.
Yes the negative of the battery goes to the chassis and the starter is conected to the negative by the engine

BUT there was an EXTRA ground wire from the chassis to the engine to ashure healthy energy amps to the starter.
After taking it out for inspection I observed that this was not the usual wire with insulation NO it was a 1 inch wide trenced coper-nickel band.
Touching it felt quiet priddle and fragil considering the thinckness and weight suspicious.
I changed it and EVERYTHING OK
This wire was very old and with salt, weather etc it just deterioated after so many years and could not keep up with the Amp flow anymore
All right....the chances that this is Ur problem are small
Anyway....how is Ur engine connected to ground (Negative) ?

Good Luck
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Old 21-01-2015, 13:25   #51
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Re: Turn key, push buttons, and nothing

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
Put your meter leads on the battery terminals and measure the voltage with no load and then when trying to start the engine.
Yes! Then repeat with the meter leads on the starter and engine ground no load and while trying to start. Voltage should be about the same as measured at the battery terminals. If not you have a problem in the wiring.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
A weak or dead battery is the most common cause of engines failing to start and is the first thing to check.
#2 cause is a loose or corroded wire or connection between the battery and starter.

By the way, it is normal for voltage on a good battery to drop a good bit when you apply a heavy load.

Since you are giving approximate numbers I'm guessing you don't have a good meter or may be using an old analog? Get a decent voltmeter. You don't need to spend $100 plus for a Fluke although that would be a very good investment but get something reasonably good and check it for accuracy.
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Old 21-01-2015, 14:27   #52
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Re: Turn key, push buttons, and nothing

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Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
Yes! Then repeat with the meter leads on the starter and engine ground no load and while trying to start. Voltage should be about the same as measured at the battery terminals. If not you have a problem in the wiring.




#2 cause is a loose or corroded wire or connection between the battery and starter.

By the way, it is normal for voltage on a good battery to drop a good bit when you apply a heavy load.

Since you are giving approximate numbers I'm guessing you don't have a good meter or may be using an old analog? Get a decent voltmeter. You don't need to spend $100 plus for a Fluke although that would be a very good investment but get something reasonably good and check it for accuracy.
Not a damn thing wrong with a good analog meter. Unless looking for low level logic Highs and Lows I would prefer an analog.
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Old 21-01-2015, 14:36   #53
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Re: Turn key, push buttons, and nothing

Step 2) Sometimes the starter solenoid can exhibit issues which may be electrical or mechanical in origin. Removing the starter or solenoid and bench testing is simple.

To eliminate issues of failiure with starter and solonoid

1.)
Take some jumper cables and a good battery (from Ur car etc) and hook up direct with all switches in OFF position.
Negative to engine
Positive to solenoid ...............should click...noise of actuation
Positive to starter motor.........should push the engine

If every runs .... Solenoid and Starter is OK

2.)
Perform the same test with all switches in OFF position but this time with battery of the boat using the jumper cables directly

If everything runs.....Battery is OK

3.)
This time only use the positive wire of the jumper cable

If everything runs.....Ground/Negative is OK

4.)
Check Fuse box

5.)
Get a automotive screw driver with control lamp to find the problem
Connect to negative and check all conections on the positive side/path

Most likely problem with contact or corrosion in mecanical conection Screw/Crimp type
Use some electrical contact spray on all posible contacts including switches and check again with control lamp

6.)
Problems between conector screw/crimp type and wire
Very comun. Reconstruct the connection best by soldering and shrink tube for moisture prevention.
If the boat is older You want to consider running a new wire

7.)
Still not funktion properly ?
Are there any PREVENTION devices / sensors to protect the engine or other circuits ?
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Old 21-01-2015, 14:57   #54
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Re: Turn key, push buttons, and nothing

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Not a damn thing wrong with a good analog meter. Unless looking for low level logic Highs and Lows I would prefer an analog.
100% agree and I keep an analog meter in my kit. For certain situations I like an analog better than a digital. However in this case I think the operative word is "good".

Since the OP seems to be somewhat vague about the voltage readings he's getting I thinking maybe a cheap meter. In general (no not always) for simple trouble shooting for someone with limited experience a digital is easier to use and interpret.

Plus it may be hard to find a good analog voltmeter these days. I have one so haven't looked but don't see any on the shelves anywhere.
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Old 21-01-2015, 15:38   #55
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Re: Turn key, push buttons, and nothing

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Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
100% agree and I keep an analog meter in my kit. For certain situations I like an analog better than a digital. However in this case I think the operative word is "good".

Since the OP seems to be somewhat vague about the voltage readings he's getting I thinking maybe a cheap meter. In general (no not always) for simple trouble shooting for someone with limited experience a digital is easier to use and interpret.

Plus it may be hard to find a good analog voltmeter these days. I have one so haven't looked but don't see any on the shelves anywhere.
I think good is a Simpson 250 although for the subject any cheap meter would work. It means, nothing knowing what you are doing and looking for. Nothing meant derogatory to any one. A little bit of reading goes a long way. Probably save a bunch of frustration.
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Old 21-01-2015, 15:53   #56
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Re: Turn key, push buttons, and nothing

Hey,
You wanna try to get this engine started or talk about meters.

A test lamp is a lot better for this kind of situation....clamps on tight on one side and has a sharp edge on the other and a visual sign is very usuefull in dark engine graves and also cheap.

In contrary with the volt meter I have to watch 2 contacts and the meter at the same time.
On top of that the dull SS tips rarely make good contact in moisture enviroment.
They are good in clean conditions.... but not in a trouble shooting situation like that

With a test lamp You have one hand free
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Old 21-01-2015, 15:58   #57
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Re: Turn key, push buttons, and nothing

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Hey,
You wanna try to get this engine started or talk about meters.

A test lamp is a lot better for this kind of situation....clamps on tight on one side and has a sharp edge on the other and a visual sign is very usuefull in dark engine graves and also cheap.

In contrary with the volt meter I have to watch 2 contacts and the meter at the same time.
On top of that the dull SS tips rarely make good contact in moisture enviroment.
They are good in clean conditions.... but not in a trouble shooting situation like that

With a test lamp You have one hand free
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Old 21-01-2015, 16:03   #58
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Re: Turn key, push buttons, and nothing

I check by next week

Hope fully the engine runs

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Old 21-01-2015, 16:07   #59
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Re: Turn key, push buttons, and nothing

Quote:
Originally Posted by warrior 90 View Post
A test lamp is a lot better for this kind of situation....clamps on tight on one side and has a sharp edge on the other and a visual sign is very usuefull in dark engine graves and also cheap.

In contrary with the volt meter I have to watch 2 contacts and the meter at the same time.
On top of that the dull SS tips rarely make good contact in moisture enviroment.
They are good in clean conditions.... but not in a trouble shooting situation like that

With a test lamp You have one hand free
Sorry but I have to completely disagree. In this case seeing an actual voltage reading could be essential to trouble shooting the problem.

And it's not hard at all to rig a clip (or clamp if you prefer) to voltmeter leads to leave your hands free.
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Old 21-01-2015, 16:19   #60
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Re: Turn key, push buttons, and nothing

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Sorry but I have to completely disagree. In this case seeing an actual voltage reading could be essential to trouble shooting the problem.

And it's not hard at all to rig a clip (or clamp if you prefer) to voltmeter leads to leave your hands free.
All the test lamp gives you is continuity. A piece of 22 AWG will give you a light. It's not rocket science, His problem sound like I've had on cars which where circa 1949. All the lamp is good for is finding an entire open.
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