Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 31-03-2013, 17:50   #46
Registered User
 
Target9000's Avatar

Join Date: May 2009
Location: New Orleans LA
Boat: 74 Westsail 32
Posts: 1,379
Re: Tough question...I'm replacing my engine, an older Yanmar...

Quote:
Originally Posted by never monday View Post
My apology if your offended. As I stated earlier. This is an oft quoted mantra of the internet. When real, actual light is put on the subject. It shows a bias and agenda.

It is a pet peeve of mine. And yes I do have a bias / agenda.
Don't sweat it. Everyone does. Its the Internet. I'm def not offended. Just saying I'm not going to do the footwork all over again for something I already know.
__________________

__________________
Let your heart tell you where to go, but let your brain tell you how to get there.

Sundowner Sails Again
Target9000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-03-2013, 18:01   #47
Registered User
 
Target9000's Avatar

Join Date: May 2009
Location: New Orleans LA
Boat: 74 Westsail 32
Posts: 1,379
Re: Tough question...I'm replacing my engine, an older Yanmar...

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Yes, I usually do try to back up any factual statements I make, as do a lot of the people here providing advice. Or at least I make the statements from direct experience. I would definitely back up statements with data if asked or challenged.

You did not state an opinion. Opinions start with words to the effect of "I think that...", or "in my opinion...".

You stated "The cost to replace or fix those sorts of things on a Volvo are astronomical compared to the prices of the Kubota based engines."

That sounds like a statement of fact no matter how you like to slice it. Further, it turns out that you did not even have that knowledge itself, as two of us have shown you.

So, no, in this case there is no value in your knowledge and this example serves to show why little value should be given to statements from people who are unwilling to confirm them.

It is certainly acceptable to speak ones mind, and I am not bringing you to task over any of that (but be prepared on the internet for lots of defending of personal opinions). However, you cannot yell fire in a theater and then just say "it was just my opinion, I may be wrong, but I don't have to defend it."

"There is a fire" is a fact. "I don't like fire" is an opinion.

Mark
Nice semantics Mark. Very nice. But in reality, when human beings speak, they usually do so in declarative statements. It is assumed generally that unless citation is provided, it is not a scientific fact when we say things. I suppose I'll have to put a disclaimer into my signature to MAKE ABSOLUTELY SURE that everyone realizes that EVERYTHING I have ever said is MY opinion and shouldn't be taken as fact. Legalize. God, when did we get to that point.

Also it is nice of you to say, "Or at least I make the statements from direct experience." Guess what... So do I. I explained in my previous post MY experiences when I was shopping around with motors. I shopped Yanmar, Volvo, Beta, and Nanni. I selected the Beta. One of the things I found shopping around was that when I called a bunch of vendors from each of the different companies, Beta had better prices. (DISCLAIMER: AT THAT POINT IN TIME ONLY - TO ME ONLY - UNRECORDED - NOT FACTUAL) Sorry I didn't write it all down and get invoice quotes in writing that I could post here. So you'll just have to take or not take my word for it. I also listed before the types of parts I was checking on. Again, I only have my word to give on that. Sorry as it is apparently.

I guess you posting about a price difference between Yanmar and Volvo in another thread somehow discredits what I found out. I mean, you had hard evidence like a little price comparison setup with slashes between the prices. But I don't like how you've not itemized where you found each and every item and what the individual retailer and vendor costs are. It really doesn't show you shopped around and we can trust your facts. Also you need dates on those prices, you know, since prices can change over time.

//end sarcasm

You guys need to get over yourselves. This is the internet. People talk. I come here to chat and exchange ideas and advice. My experiences are mine. They come with all the credit you do or don't give me unless I cite and backup with third party review able evidence. I believe that goes for anyone here. So to those people that are interested, I say... I found Beta Marine spares and parts cheaper than Yanmar or Volvo. Sorry, I didn't record all the things at the time I looked into it a couple of years back.
__________________

__________________
Let your heart tell you where to go, but let your brain tell you how to get there.

Sundowner Sails Again
Target9000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-03-2013, 18:13   #48
Senior Cruiser
 
hpeer's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Boat: Murray 33-Chouette & Pape Steelmaid-44-Safara-both steel cutters
Posts: 3,896
Re: Tough question...I'm replacing my engine, an older Yanmar...

How would one go about finding out the basic engine mfg and mode, as someone suggested above.

We have a Yanmar 4JH4_TE.

Whar do I look for in the tractor store?
__________________
hpeer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-03-2013, 18:33   #49
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Nevada City. CA
Boat: Sceptre 41
Posts: 3,745
Images: 9
Re: Tough question...I'm replacing my engine, an older Yanmar...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
How would one go about finding out the basic engine mfg and mode, as someone suggested above.

We have a Yanmar 4JH4_TE.

Whar do I look for in the tractor store?
Yanmar makes it difficult. I was told by a marine supplier that I could not get new injector nozzles for my yanmar 4JH4E. There were none in North America. I took the nozzles apart and found the numbers written on them and called this company
Blue Ridge Diesel - Providing diesel engine sales, service and parts They took the numbers and told me that I could get as many as I wanted from their supplier. I don't remember what or if their was a difference in part costs but I had to be persistent to get the parts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by never monday View Post
apples and oranges Charlie.
Your looking the parts up for two separate market segments. Yes boat parts cost more than construction EQ / tractor parts. Why, because yachties will pay it. Do your due dillegance and find the Yanmar base industrial engine. Then compare starter prices.

BUT FIRST, why on earth would you buy a new starter? unless is was a gift to Neptune. Each and every starter can be rebuilt.
Pat,
I think that was the point. I have heard that Beta will provide a cross reference to people for the engine parts that can be bought at a tractor store. I have yet to see so maybe someone can confirm that it exists.
__________________
Fair Winds,

Charlie

Between us there was, as I have already said somewhere, the bond of the sea. Besides holding our hearts together through long periods of separation, it had the effect of making us tolerant of each other's yarns -- and even convictions. Heart of Darkness
Joseph Conrad
Charlie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-03-2013, 18:47   #50
Registered User
 
Target9000's Avatar

Join Date: May 2009
Location: New Orleans LA
Boat: 74 Westsail 32
Posts: 1,379
Re: Tough question...I'm replacing my engine, an older Yanmar...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie View Post
Pat,
I think that was the point. I have heard that Beta will provide a cross reference to people for the engine parts that can be bought at a tractor store. I have yet to see so maybe someone can confirm that it exists.
Yes they will. You can call Stanley at Beta and he'll give you the info. The engine maintenance manual even has many of the maintenance item cross references listed in it. At least on my Beta 38 it does.
__________________
Let your heart tell you where to go, but let your brain tell you how to get there.

Sundowner Sails Again
Target9000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-03-2013, 18:47   #51
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,901
Re: Tough question...I'm replacing my engine, an older Yanmar...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie View Post
Pat,
I think that was the point. I have heard that Beta will provide a cross reference to people for the engine parts that can be bought at a tractor store. I have yet to see so maybe someone can confirm that it exists.
Beta supplies the Kubota service and parts manuals for their engines. And as we all know, these arn't the parts that fail. Even still when it is an engine part that fails. There are resources well beyond the engine vendor to acquire parts.
Like Bosch, Yanmar authorizes independent fuel injection shops. These shops have access to the full range of Yanmar injection system parts.


FYI,
None of these injection systems are proprietary to the engine builder. They are built under license.
__________________
never monday is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-03-2013, 19:18   #52
Senior Cruiser
 
hpeer's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Boat: Murray 33-Chouette & Pape Steelmaid-44-Safara-both steel cutters
Posts: 3,896
Re: Tough question...I'm replacing my engine, an older Yanmar...

I've been told there were no head gaskets in N America, which I find complete BS.

So I now have a spare head gasket.

There must be a way.
__________________
hpeer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-03-2013, 19:27   #53
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 391
Re: Tough question...I'm replacing my engine, an older Yanmar...

Have two boats, older one has a Yanmar 3ym30 with about 250 hrs, installed it new a few years ago.
Fresh water pump went !!!
Quote was $800 for the part here in Oz, we managed to source one from the US for $300
Bit of a job though, Yanmar are pretty a..l about geographic licensing.
Newer boat has a Volvo 2003 sail drive, we bought it anyway. The surveyor runs them on his charter boats, gave us the lowdown on maintenance, so far so good. Only problem was the service guys for the PO put the wrong thermostat in, easy to sort that one out.
I can get a Kubota engine which fits the Volvo saildrive, so replacement is not a big problem.
I figured I would replace any old engine at some time or other, so being obsessive about the Volvo maintenance and doing it myself.
If it claps out, I will replace it rather than repair it.
Gotta say though, I have had six Yanmars in the past and loved them, not very impressed with the new ones.
__________________
olaf hart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 18:30   #54
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 11
Re: Tough question...I'm replacing my engine, an older Yanmar...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Target9000 View Post
Yes they will. You can call Stanley at Beta and he'll give you the info. The engine maintenance manual even has many of the maintenance item cross references listed in it. At least on my Beta 38 it does.
Target, the displacement of your boat is about 20,000 lbs, correct? I'm looking at the Beta 30 for my boat, which displaces about 22,000 lbs. the 30 is a 3 cyl. And the 38 is a four cyl. Do you like your 38?
__________________
P1PEL1NE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 18:55   #55
Registered User
 
Target9000's Avatar

Join Date: May 2009
Location: New Orleans LA
Boat: 74 Westsail 32
Posts: 1,379
Re: Tough question...I'm replacing my engine, an older Yanmar...

Quote:
Originally Posted by P1PEL1NE View Post
Target, the displacement of your boat is about 20,000 lbs, correct? I'm looking at the Beta 30 for my boat, which displaces about 22,000 lbs. the 30 is a 3 cyl. And the 38 is a four cyl. Do you like your 38?
Yes, our boat is around 20k lbs. I can't speak for the 30 but I know that I've heard that the 4cyl motors run a bit smoother, just what I've heard in passing. The 38 fit our needs well and so far the engine has been wonderful. More quiet than the Perkin's M50 it replaced. Easier maintenance. Cheaper spares and maintenance items.

When we motor in flat calm we can hit 5kts pretty easy at moderate rpm. We use a 16r14 prop I believe.

When we first installed I had a fuel system air leak. Totally unrelated to the motor. The motor kept dying of fuel starvation. I called Stanley at Beta and he spent a long time on the phone helping me fix my problem. Best customer service I've gotten in a long time.

If I had to do it again I would upgrade to the serpentine belt though. Lots of details on the install on our website.
__________________
Let your heart tell you where to go, but let your brain tell you how to get there.

Sundowner Sails Again
Target9000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 19:09   #56
Registered User
 
SVTatia's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Toronto, Canada
Boat: Luders 33 - hull 23
Posts: 815
Re: Tough question...I'm replacing my engine, an older Yanmar...

Oh man! From all the arguments and specs and comparisons from these past 55 threads, wouldn't it be so much easier if we could just choose by the color? I mean, if you like green, grey, blue or red? Only thing is if you like red, its another problem - there are two of them! Can't win.
__________________
SVTatia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 19:31   #57
Registered User
 
Pete the Cat's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Maine and California
Boat: Tartan 37 "Velera"
Posts: 338
Re: Tough question...I'm replacing my engine, an older Yanmar...

I replaced my Westerbeke 50 with insane parts costs questionable marinization engineering, I installed a Yanmar 3cylinder. Love it. Local dealer supported my self install work very nicely, and parts like filters and impellers are cheaper from my local distributor than from Defender. Starts at a partial revolution. Design is clearly made for marine application, not just a tractor engine adapted and you can tell if you look at it. There is a lot of talk about getting parts for tractor blocks in far away places from other folks. As has been mentioned, the parts most likely to fail are not the engine, but the marinized parts made by the marinizer assembler. Good luck finding them stocked anywhere. I am sure the folks who sell these engines are very sincere and I think competition is good for consumers. But I paid the very same total price for my Yanmar as the quoted price for a Beta. After the installation process and my first 500 hours I could not be happier. Westerbeke does nothing different than Beta (marinize other Diesel engines) but having one place to go for parts, a dealership network. If you are a recreational sailor, not leaving the US you probably have a tough choice. But if you have experience cruising in other countries, you know the value of not having to import parts as an individual (I learned this the hard way)-- you might think in these days of FedEx you would have no problem getting parts anywhere in the world. I twice spent double the cost of Westerbeke parts in customs costs while in Central America.
__________________
Ray Durkee
S/V Velera
Tartan 37
Castine, Maine
Pete the Cat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 23:51   #58
Registered User
 
sailcruiser's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Boat: S2 11.0A 36'
Posts: 763
I have an old Volvo that will be replaced with a Beta at some point.

SC
__________________
sailcruiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 08:26   #59
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Tough question...I'm replacing my engine, an older Yanmar...

I have owned a 4-cylinder Kubota-based engine on a boat. It was the smoothest engine I have ever seen. If you can fit the slightly larger engine and afford the weight, I would go for it over the smaller one.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2013, 18:09   #60
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 252
Re: Tough question...I'm replacing my engine, an older Yanmar...

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingCloud1937 View Post
Hi Jim,

It's quiet simple. We are taking stability. The Shib..1st, then Perk...2nd, and Cat..3rd, marinized by Volvo.

So Shiburia a Japenese tractor company began the deal. Tractors need to work. Some Trac's... are driven by driveline, some are by belt.

All are from the crank..shaft.

So Shi/Perkins/Cat/Volovo have benefited.

They are the only engine in it's class that can drive a side load, and produce an NM load spiragraph.

Yanmar, Kuboata, and clones say no to any side loads, and don't/won't produce a spiragraph.

Any reciprocating engine, depends and the mono...block and crankshaft design, to function day in, and day out.

So any mono...block designed to deliver a side load, can and will deliver.

Lloyd
Lloyd, we are all entitled to our own opinions and many have been expressed here. However when quoting so called facts I suggest that you be very careful. You state that Kubota say no to any side loads and this is totally incorrect. I don't where you got this information, only you do. Kubota's application manuals all provide guidelines for anyone using a Kubota diesel in a piece of equipment. Generally you are allowed up to 15% of HP as side load and 100% off in a straight line off the crankshaft. I can find no statement for ISM Shibauru.
Stanley
__________________

__________________
NCboatrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
engine, yanmar

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:10.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.