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Old 21-02-2005, 14:29   #1
sjs
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Too Much Stabilizer

Last November I began winterizing my C270 and then got tied up at work and asked my boat yard to winterize the boat when they hauled it. When I got the bill I saw that they added diesel fuel stabilizer. Problem is, I had already done so. Now, if they added the correct amount, I have twice as much as I should.

Will this be harmful to my engine? Do I need to have all this fuel drained or can it be used? Is there a counter treatment option? My engine is a Westerbeke 20B Two.

Thanks for any assistance.
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Old 21-02-2005, 22:58   #2
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No it will be just fine. Depending on what the yard added and what you added, on the back of the product should be a set of instructions to state what dose rate should be used. You may (or may not) find that there are different dose rates depending on temperatures, or maybe the difference between anti-fungal/bacterial killing or just protection etc. The dose rate in other words can be broad ranging. Double the amount should be of little problem. In fact, many stabilizers are infact mostly a base product of Kerosene or Diesel. Depending on what the product is of course, Some products, The active ingrediants are so poisonuose, that they are greatly diluted with the base product.
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Old 22-02-2005, 04:38   #3
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My first thought was to leave the boat out twice as long!
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Old 22-02-2005, 15:22   #4
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Thanks very much Allen.

Irwinsailor, how can someone from up north even think such a thing?
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Old 22-02-2005, 21:19   #5
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Maybe it is because we can only use our boats up here about 5 months a year. The season is so short that if you blink nost of it is gone.
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Old 22-02-2005, 23:48   #6
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Question

Is your tank full?

When the season starts again you could always add more fuel.

But like Alan says, It probably won't hurt a thing.

Diesel is made up of tiny little particals that will start clumping together when it sits too long. That's what plugs up filters so much. The stableizer helps to keep that from happening.

One thing that is smart to do is change the filter after the first tank of fuel for the season. That way one has elimated the storage muck and start fresh for the rest of the year............................_/)
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Old 23-02-2005, 03:41   #7
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Diesel is made up of tiny little particals that will start clumping together when it sits too long.
Hmm, I always thougt the stuff that clogs up filters are algea that grows in water that collects in the bottom of the tank, then feeds on the fuel....?

No air in tank = No water in tank = no bugs = no clogged filter.
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Old 23-02-2005, 22:07   #8
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Actually, diesel fuel particals have polarity and start bunching together like a bunch of magnets making larger chuncks (slug) and that's what HELPs to clog filters. The algae only forms in the water and then contaminates the fuel when mixed around.

At this years boat show they had some fuel treatment that helps prevent, rather a fuel treatment/demagnetizer that keeps the particals from sticking together.

Here this should help!!!!!!

http://www.algae-x.net/faq_answers.htm#1

.............................._/)
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Old 24-02-2005, 05:59   #9
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Thans, interesting reading on the Algae-X web page.

Seen them guys on the boat shows and have been thinking snake-oil when the try to sell their expensive magnets for fuel systems.

Perhaps they have a case....?
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Old 24-02-2005, 11:35   #10
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I spent at least a half hour talking with a couple rep's and they seem to know diesel fuel pretty well. I was mostly interested in solutions for Bio-diesel which we use at work. We have a lot of filter changes due to the slug build up in bio. I changed a screen in a couple dispensers last week that look like the bottom of a seasoned boat.

I talked to a couple of the truck mechanics in the shop and they think it makes sence, about the demagnetizer.

But I do think that Algae-X is trying to push their other products more than anything. They did have a mobile filtering unit that I liked, at dockside one could run their fuel thru at the begining of a season to get all the settiments out so to start fresh in the spring.

http://www.algae-x.net/prod_systems.htm (mobile filtering system)
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Old 24-02-2005, 12:00   #11
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Yep Delmarrey is right. It isn't actually magnetics of course, but the particles when they clump together form a wax type material. Most liquids that are made up of multi-complex chemicals are subject to this. Although not quite the same, water and anti-freeze is a good analogy. The water molicles are effectively held apart by the glycol molicules, thus stopping the water molicules from collecting together and crystilizing. If you want to get really technical, the activity of the water molicules decreases as temperature drops. As the activity comes to a stop, they can collect together, and the only difference with water than any other liquid, is that they start forming a crystal. The crystal has an irregular surface and thus has gaps between on crystal and the next. Thus water expands when frozen. But that is off the track.
Diesel is made up of many complex chemicals. When it gets cold enough, one of those chemicals starts to "freeze" out of the others forming this waxy substance. The additive does the same job as the glycol in water. It's stops the molicules of that waxy substance from being able to come together and the wax stays at a molecular level floating through the diesel. At such a small particle size, it will still flow through the fuel filter along with everything else that makes up the fuel.
What the additve is, varies from snake charmer to snake charmer. Some can be good, some can be dangerouse. I mentioned in another post that some of those additives can be Kerosene as the base carrier of the toxic stuff. Kerosene happens to be a good product for cleaning injectors. So some of those products are sold as injector cleaner. But Kerosene is also death to the pump and injector, cause to those components, it acts like an abrasive instead of a lubricant.
Another product I have great doubt in, is the bio-mag filter. It may be called something different in your neck of the woods, but is is basiclly a magnet that the fuel runs through. It is supposed to pull apart the algea and the wax and stuff. Well I have yet to be convinced how it works. If a magnetic field could have an affect on the deisel components, it would also attract those components. And so far I have yet to see a tank of fuel sucked up by a magnet.
Oh and one final one out there. Anti-foaming agents. Often found in additives used to reduce heat in oils, such as hydraulics etc. It is basically a minute Silicon particle that has a "sharp" shape to it. The sharp points break the air bubbles down, thus reducing oil temperature and foaming.
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Old 24-02-2005, 18:22   #12
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These are the mag units

http://www.algae-x.net/prod_fuelcond.htm

From what I understand from talking to the rep's, is the diesel particals have an outer surface that is sort of egg shaped which has a positive charge, and it has a necules which has a negitive charge. So, one side of the particals is thiner then the other. Thus, allowing them to stick together when in the proper positions.

When the particals pass thru the fuel conditioner (above), which has magnets with the negitive side facing the passage ways, it pulls the particals apart with the negitive force.

The theory sounds good but I'd like to test run a unit over a period of time using the same batch of fuel in two sister engines with the same filters, one with the fuel-cond . Like a twin engine boat. And then test the flow of each filter for restrictions.
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Old 24-02-2005, 19:32   #13
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Yes I agree with you on the test. Plus, this is where the hole in their theory lies. They are confusing people with the positive and negative charge in the atoms. No magnet affects that attraction/repelling effect. Magnetics affects iron (Fe) only. Anything with iron in it can be manipulated with magnetics and or create a magnetic feild.
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