Tier 4 engines

[bauer965]

Has anyone received any advice from their local dealers/distributors regarding the purchase of small diesels this year?
Tier 4 goes into effect in 2013. Many manufacturers have Tier 4 compliant engines in the marketplace already, but others are still selling legally Tier 2/3 as applicable.
I imagine, come 2013, these non-Tier 4 engines will have to be re-worked by the OEM in order to be sold in 2013 as Tier 4.
Which leads me to the question...will there be discounts on non-Tier 4 engines during this last month of 2013? Or conversely, will we see an increase in price for Tier 4 engines?
What's the scuttle-butt out there?

[Driftwoods]

Tier 4 may not apply to smaller marine diesels:

The nonroad diesel emission regulations are not applicable to all nonroad diesel engines. Exempted are the following nonroad engine categories:

• Engines used in railway locomotives; those are subject to separate EPA regulations..

• Engines used in marine vessels, also covered by separate EPA regulations. Marine engines below 37 kW (50 hp) are subject to Tier 1-2—but not Tier 4—nonroad standards. Certain marine engines that are exempted from marine standards may be subject to nonroad regulations.

But then again, they may... government regulations are always so easy to sort out.

[sabray]

see table 9 page 19. looks like the marine engines only need to meet tier 3. Not easy to figure it out and I am not sure. http://www.epa.gov/oms/models/nonrdm.../420r10018.pdf

[marshmat]

My (admittedly incomplete) understanding of the rules is that, for marine diesel engines, Tier 3 will be implemented across the board by the 2014 model year. The Tier 4 road standards will not, as I understand it, apply to nonroad (marine) engines.

There is a bit of confusion in that some of these engines will use technology type T4M to meet the Tier 3 nonroad requirements, and marine Tier 3 phase 2 is sometimes referred to as Tier 4 (even though such engines do not have to meet Tier 4 standards). See table A2 (p.A5/34) of the document linked by sabray above.

[bauer965]

OK, you guys do a fine job of trying to explain the regulations, which actually doesn't relate to my question, nor is an area that I wish to be educated. (Being a ship designer for the USCG, I already have sound comprehension of the regs (and note that I used to term "as applicable" to denote that not all the regs apply to all engines).)

My question was on the topic of consumer pricing, aimed at those who may be privy to relevant discussions at the distributor/retailer level.

[sabray]

Weeell pretty hard to say unless we know what is changing. Looking at the guys i bought my engine from it looks like nothing has changed. Still can buy the marinized cummins 4b3.3 at no increased price point. Could be that the motor meets the offroad standard and is allowed.That would mean no change. I Dont know. So will the price go up if we have to install more complicated engines yes. Probably if we have to install more complicated bigger boxes to power us more people will rebuild.

[marshmat]

As I understand it, new regs coming into force doesn't mean that every OEM and dealer has to suddenly liquidate its existing inventory of lower-tier engines. It just means that anything of that model year or beyond has to meet the new regs.

These are being phased in gradually, with varying timelines for each class of engine. As the factories change over to the Tier 3/4 models, the existing stock of Tier 2 models will be depleted. I think it is unlikely that there will be a sudden change in availability or pricing in any given class, particularly since a fair fraction of the existing lineups are already compliant with Tier 3 marine.

[Morrissey]

Originally Posted by bauer965

Has anyone received any advice from their local dealers/distributors regarding the purchase of small diesels this year?
Tier 4 goes into effect in 2013. Many manufacturers have Tier 4 compliant engines in the marketplace already, but others are still selling legally Tier 2/3 as applicable.
I imagine, come 2013, these non-Tier 4 engines will have to be re-worked by the OEM in order to be sold in 2013 as Tier 4.
Which leads me to the question...will there be discounts on non-Tier 4 engines during this last month of 2013? Or conversely, will we see an increase in price for Tier 4 engines?
What's the scuttle-butt out there?

As noted by others, in regard to small diesel engines Tier 3 is Ok for 2013, as in Table 5 in this link
Emission Standards: USA: Marine Diesel Engines

I have just bought some JD 6068 in the PNW, Tier 2. The dealer was saying that they had to be ordered with enough lead-time to be delivered before 31 Dec, else I would need to order Tier 3. But that might have been just a story.....

I also got prices from Australia, and wished that I could have done the deal there. I can still buy Tier 1 in Aust - apparently the emission rules aren't applied here at this point. Shame that the boat is still in the US, on the hard without engines.
JD 6068 TFM 50 (Tier 1) - $19,355 (no gear)
JD 6068 TFM 75 (Tier 2) - $21,117 (no gear)
JD 6068 Tier 3 - $34,100

I was amazed at the Tier 3 price. Of course no-one is going to buy one in Aust as they dont have to, so they probably haven't fine tuned the pricing. But even if it has some fat in it I think that a lot of folks will look at remans.

The other interesting thing was that my Tier 2 retail price in Aust was lower than the dealer's buy price from distributor in US PNW. Go figure!

[downunder]

Are you sure the dealer is not just touching you up? seems over the top.

[Morrissey]

Originally Posted by downunder

Are you sure the dealer is not just touching you up? seems over the top.

Well I agree that the Tier 3 price seems crazy. Maybe it was heard incorrectly. I had quite a few emails subsequently as I seriously looked at a private import of some Tier 1's into the US from him. But I had no interest in Tier 3's. He had quoted some other folks for Tier 1's as well. But I, and the others, chickened out in case the Nth American customs folk were not amused, even if they were for a foreign registered boat. Plus there was the post install check and warranty start aspects.