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Old 14-01-2015, 09:13   #1
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Tier 4 diesel choices

We are looking at repowers in the 38-45 HP range and finding that many now don't have anything that can be sold in the US.

Engines that are not Tier 4 are 15-35% less in price, and many use the same base engines, so it does not make a lot of sense.

When talking about the difference between 9K and 12K, that is a big difference and 3K is a month or two out of the cruising kitty.

From what I am finding, Nanni (Kubota) and Sole (Mitsubishi) can't be sold in the US. But Beta (Kubota) and Westerbeke (Mitsubishi) can at a much higher price. Volvo and Yanmar are not super competetive and neither show V-Drive as options and both kill you on parts down the line.

One option is to wait to replace the engine until starting cruising in the Bahamas or Mexico, but that scares me a little.

Anyone with recent experience or dealers, would love to hear an opinion. I am leaning towards Beta, but is it really worth 3 grand over the Nanni on the same block?
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Old 15-01-2015, 08:52   #2
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Re: Tier 4 diesel choices

Not to worry.....Tier 4 emission requirements for marine diesel engines that started in 2014 and will phase in thru 2017 apply only to engines in commercial operation with H.P. exceeding 800.

At this point in time Tier 3 is the current standard which engine manufacturers must meet to sell engines in the US in the H.P. range that you are interested in. Tier 3 in this H.P. range will remain in effect at least thru 2018.

DougR
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Old 15-01-2015, 09:21   #3
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Re: Tier 4 diesel choices

Thank you for the reply. I am a bit confused as two dealers have told me they can't sell in the U.S. after Jan 1 since their engines don't meet tier 4 (these are US based dealers of mitsubishi and kubota based diesels outside of US marinized).


So, are the choices in the US only Westerbeke, Yanmar, Beta and Volvo for under 50HP ?
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Old 15-01-2015, 18:12   #4
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Re: Tier 4 diesel choices

OK, so I took an hour and tried to read through the EPA rules. It is no wonder the US Government is in such a way...

What it sounds like to me is Tier 2 standards took place in 2011 and Tier 3 in 2016 and Tier 4 phased in 2018. Hopefully someone else will check the rules and confirm or deny that and get the word out to the dealers.

Even called the customs in San Diego and they knew nothing and just said as long as it has AN EPA Certificate. Tier 1, 2... they didn't care.



"
The near-term Tier 2 standards
will apply beginning in 2011 and will
require more efficient use of engine
technologies being used today,
including engine timing, engine cooling,
and advanced computer controls. The
long-term Tier 3 standards will apply
beginning in 2016 and will require the
use of more advanced technology such
as selective catalytic reduction."
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Old 16-01-2015, 10:20   #5
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Re: Tier 4 diesel choices

It is easy to get confused reading the EPA emission web site. A more readable explaination of the regulations can be found at www.dieselnet.com .

But what it boils down to is that current regs. for engines below 75 kW (102hp) are Tier 3. Tier 4 has started for engines above 3700kW (5000HP).

Tier 3 for engines that you are interested in will remain in effect until at least 2018, and the EPA is still formulating the rules for after that.

If you go to the web sites of the various engine manufacturers you can find which engines conform to Tier 3, and which dont. It is best to go to the factory site. For example, to find info about Beta, go to the UK web site.

Nanni- N4.60 and below engines are Tier 3 certified.
Vetus- some are certified and some are not
Beta- everything below 50 h.p. is Tier 3 certified. Above 50 h.p. some are, some are not
Volvo- all certified to Tier 3
etc....

DougR
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Old 16-01-2015, 11:44   #6
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Re: Tier 4 diesel choices

Quote:
Originally Posted by DougR View Post
It is easy to get confused reading the EPA emission web site. A more readable explaination of the regulations can be found at www.dieselnet.com .


Thank You!
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Old 16-01-2015, 15:41   #7
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Re: Tier 4 diesel choices

If Nanni and Sole are really not selling engines in the US, perhaps there is another reason besides the regulations? Like not a large enough market for them, or focusing on just Tier 4 engines, or something like that?

Mark
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Old 17-01-2015, 00:47   #8
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Re: Tier 4 diesel choices

I bought a Yanmar 4hj4-te 75hp with ZF v drive last summer.. I believe it's tier 3 rated. That drive would fit your hp range. My engine was cheaper than a comparable Perkins and beta, but if I could have fit it I would have went Beta or Perkins (though Perkins didn't have a perfect hp size for me, either a 60 or 85). I'm hoping to get my engine running and have the dealer do a sea trial so I can start my warranty.

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Old 23-01-2015, 01:35   #9
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Re: Tier 4 diesel choices

I just recently re powered with a Nanni N4 60 here in the US. This is a 60hp turbocharged tier 4 compliant engine. Anything below this is tier 3 and the US importer Waterway Power Center keeps a good stock of engines in stock.


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Old 23-01-2015, 02:32   #10
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Re: Tier 4 diesel choices

Id recommend Nanni, good engine based around a kubota block. easy on fuel too.

dave
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Old 23-01-2015, 09:40   #11
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Re: Tier 4 diesel choices

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Originally Posted by rjdives View Post
I just recently re powered with a Nanni N4 60 here in the US. This is a 60hp turbocharged tier 4 compliant engine. Anything below this is tier 3 and the US importer Waterway Power Center keeps a good stock of engines in stock.


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Really interesting that you say the Nanni N4-60 engine meets EPA Tier 4 standards. I have looked all over the Nanni web site and can't find that information, so I'm a little skeptical of the Tier 4 claim.....Tier 3, sure.

My skepticism is based on the fact that the EPA hasn't formulated Tier 4 requirements for engines in this size range so it's unlikely Nanni would make such claims.

From former life experiences with off- highway industrial and generator engines, and trucks, I know that meeting Tier 4 emission levels requires exhaust after treatment. That means either SCR ( selective catalytic reduction) where DEF (diesel emission fluid) is injected into the catalyst to eliminate NOx, or the engine is equipped with a DPF ( diesel particulate filter and maybe an oxidation catalyst) to reduce particulate matter. I don't see either of these technologies associated with the N4-60.

I would be interested in learning more about the technology that Nanni is using if you can provide additional info.

Thanks
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Old 26-01-2015, 12:09   #12
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Re: Tier 4 diesel choices

With tier 4 there is no set standards in stone yet. With tier 3 and beyond you have to make sure your Fuel filters meet the micron size that the engine manufacture requires

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Old 03-03-2015, 12:23   #13
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Re: Tier 4 diesel choices

As far as I can tell, I think Mitsubishi based blocks are non-compliant right now. That means Westerbeke does not have anything 30-50 right now.

Yanmar will quote one day, and not sure the next.

Nanni and Beta are both ready to sell an engine.

Beta so far wins hands down on the pre-sale support.
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Old 03-03-2015, 12:28   #14
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Re: Tier 4 diesel choices

Have you got a solid quote for Beta? They usually seem to offer 10% off, right away. Also make sure you are comparing like for like, as their prices usually include the transmission.
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Old 03-03-2015, 15:58   #15
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Re: Tier 4 diesel choices

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Originally Posted by MarkSF View Post
Have you got a solid quote for Beta? They usually seem to offer 10% off, right away. Also make sure you are comparing like for like, as their prices usually include the transmission.
Yes, and actually like for like, Beta is just a little over Nanni with the quotes I have so far. Still worth it for the added features of the Beta and I appreciate the customer service thus far.

Farron at Beta has been quick to respond to all of my questions, he actually does homework on the existing setup and engine and computes the best transmission prop combination, etc. Not to mention the custom mounts to keep from having to do major work to the beds to fit the new engine.
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