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Old 28-09-2011, 21:48   #31
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Re: The Right Way to Run a Diesel

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Originally Posted by twistedtree View Post
I think by far the best advice is to read the manual for YOUR engine. They vary a lot in design, components, ratings, etc. What's right for one may be wrong for another.

As an example, some of the "advice" given here to always run at 85% to 95% load directly contradicts what the manual for my engines says. I'm sure that "advice" is correct for some engine out there in the world, but it would be very bad advice for mine and would void the warranty.
Good advise ... of course the manual should always be trusted over some guy (probably referring to my post) on the internet. Engines do vary a lot.
BTW, please note that I have been referring to "load" and not RPM and other posts have been referring to RPM. These terms may be interchangeable but they don't have to be.
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Old 29-09-2011, 05:26   #32
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Re: The Right Way to Run a Diesel

It always amazes me when this topic comes up the number of people that think running a piece of equiment at it's max is good for it!

I run my Yanmar most at a speed that IT likes and I can tell by the sound what that is. If I have run it at low load a long time I do run it up high for a while every so offen. If I run it hard a long time I plan to run it under light load a while before shutdown to allow the tempuratures to equalize. If I start it up I run it long enough to warm up (doesn't take long).

The high running has nothing to do with the mechanical part of the bearings etc, it has to do with burning fuel despoits. So are you more worried about the mechanical part of your engine, or the injectors and parts effected by the combustion? Which is easier and less expensive to fix?

In the end I run my engine the way the manual says to.

Wonder how those 6000+ hour charter boats engines get run by the people who are on them for a week? Maybe it doesn't matter HOW you run you engine as long as you DO run your engine.
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Old 29-09-2011, 08:17   #33
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Re: The Right Way to Run a Diesel

Do NOT treat it like a tractor trailer diesel and let it idle for hours. Without a doubt the worse thing you can do. That and start, putt out of dock, shut down and sail, might be number 2.
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Old 29-09-2011, 09:11   #34
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Re: The Right Way to Run a Diesel

Add one to this, having recently had to remove the turbo and clean it:

If you have a turbo charged diesel, make SURE you regularly run it hard enough to keep the turbo clean. And, invest in turbo cleaner and use it.
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Old 29-09-2011, 09:30   #35
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Re: The Right Way to Run a Diesel

Cat Man Do....

Regarding engine size on the cat...

Thanks for the question.

Of course, you are right. In a new build today, I would install smaller engines, and probably CP props so that I could feather one engine for max cruise range, while simultaneously getting the operating engine further up on the efficiency curve.

But we were built in 2000, when (US) fuel cost was sub US$1.00....sigh....

I'm still considering retrofitting CP props, or even exploring MaxProps. But I just can't make the numbers work (yet).

The boat:
faq

How is your project proceeding?

Dave
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Old 29-09-2011, 10:21   #36
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Re: The Right Way to Run a Diesel

It's a pretty simple math problem.
My boat runs a mile on one gallon of fuel, so if I average 4000 miles/600 hrs a year,and it costs me $20,000 in fuel.
If I cut back the throttle, I will cost me half as much to cover 4000 miles.
It will cost me $7000 to rebuild my diesel every 10,000 hours if I run it at lower rpm and $7000 every 25,000 hours if I run at full throttle.
I will never live long enough to log 10,000 hours, let alone 25,000 hrs, so I don't care one way or another.
Take out a piece of paper and plug in your numbers.
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Old 29-09-2011, 10:30   #37
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Re: The Right Way to Run a Diesel

Good advice bstreep... see the post in Sailors Confessionals about turbo problems I just experienced... cheers, Capt Phil
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Old 29-09-2011, 10:34   #38
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Re: The Right Way to Run a Diesel

lorenzo b...

Your logic is exactly the same as mine. I average 2.4 NMGP at 6 kts.

Dave
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Old 29-09-2011, 10:56   #39
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Re: The Right Way to Run a Diesel

While much advice given on here may have some basis in fact...it may not apply at all to how you run your diesel..

Some are high performance/high rpm.... some low...some commercial duty...some rec duty.

Some operators blow them out by the nature of how they operate...some not...

To take any advice without applying it to your boat/propping/circumstances/use is foolish on such an expensive piece of equipment...bottom line...if it dies of old age long before the normal rebuild schedule because of non-use...who cares how it's operated.

Caterpillar stopped using hours as a measure between rebuilds and went to gallons fuel consumed. Airlines stopped using hours and went to vibration/sensor analysis for replacing high time/wearable parts.

Take advice...but take the words of wisdom of many...too many think they are telling the truth...but it's often only a piece of the puzzle.
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Old 29-09-2011, 11:00   #40
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Re: The Right Way to Run a Diesel

The right way to run is according to the manufacturer's instructions, it doesn't hurt to get with the service department and talk to one of the Technicians about longest life operating procedures. I have asked that question of a number of engineers and mechanics and the response usually is don't lug the engine and don't run it a max rpm. Change the oil regularly, keep clean fuel and air don't overheat the engine and don't run it too cold.
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Old 29-09-2011, 11:08   #41
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Re: The Right Way to Run a Diesel

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The right way to run is according to the manufacturer's instructions, it doesn't hurt to get with the service department and talk to one of the Technicians about longest life operating procedures. I have asked that question of a number of engineers and mechanics and the response usually is don't lug the engine and don't run it a max rpm. Change the oil regularly, keep clean fuel and air don't overheat the engine and don't run it too cold.
That is assuming the boat was set up as the engine manufacturer recommended...many aren't.

I don't know WHAT engineers you have spoken to...but MANY diesels are governed to run happily at max throttle.

Lugging is particularly destructive,\.
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Old 29-09-2011, 11:13   #42
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Re: The Right Way to Run a Diesel

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Add one to this, having recently had to remove the turbo and clean it:

If you have a turbo charged diesel, make SURE you regularly run it hard enough to keep the turbo clean. And, invest in turbo cleaner and use it.

New Yanmar turbo owner, just heard about this product in this thread. How do you introduce it to the turbo, in the fuel??
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Old 29-09-2011, 11:18   #43
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Re: The Right Way to Run a Diesel

No you certainly don't know the engineers I have interacted with. If you run an engine up against the governor all the time, you may not damage it, however if you run say, a detroit diesel at 1850 rpm as opposed to the governed 2150 rpm you are likely to get a longer life span between rebuilds. A marine propulsion engine is under a constant load condition, where as with truck engines the load varies during use according to conditions. Where a propulsion engine is usually under a constant strain, there is some fluctuation going with the swell or against, it still a steadier pull than highway driving.
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Old 29-09-2011, 11:29   #44
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Re: The Right Way to Run a Diesel

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No you certainly don't know the engineers I have interacted with. If you run an engine up against the governor all the time, you may not damage it, however if you run say, a detroit diesel at 1850 rpm as opposed to the governed 2150 rpm you are likely to get a longer life span between rebuilds. A marine propulsion engine is under a constant load condition, where as with truck engines the load varies during use according to conditions. Where a propulsion engine is usually under a constant strain, there is some fluctuation going with the swell or against, it still a steadier pull than highway driving.
And your point is?????

What I said is every marine application CAN be different and if you listen to an engineer broadly discussing what MAY be good may not apply at all to your specific vessel.

MOST marine diesels have several ratings based on continuous duty, commercial, recreational, etc...etc...depending on manuafactutrer...application.

The Cat 3208s are a good example...later model 210 hp nats could be run 10,000 hours at the pins...but if you bought a 48 Grand Banks with 475 HP 3208s with turbo and aftercoolers...many were lucky to get 2000 hrs at 80 percent throttle trying to plane those heavy boats.
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Old 29-09-2011, 11:33   #45
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Re: The Right Way to Run a Diesel

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No you certainly don't know the engineers I have interacted with. If you run an engine up against the governor all the time, you may not damage it, however if you run say, a detroit diesel at 1850 rpm as opposed to the governed 2150 rpm you are likely to get a longer life span between rebuilds. A marine propulsion engine is under a constant load condition, where as with truck engines the load varies during use according to conditions. Where a propulsion engine is usually under a constant strain, there is some fluctuation going with the swell or against, it still a steadier pull than highway driving.
And PS...having run a small commercial tug with nat detroits that were removed from an oil patch crew boat and later installed in the tug...ran the 26 foot tug for a winter pushing 750,000 pound rock barges to fill rip/rap around a bridge...WAY harder service than any rec boat....still going...so whomever you are talking to should stick with computers or go back to sliderules...
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