Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 16-10-2014, 18:31   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 534
Suzuki Outboard keeps dying, any genuises out there?

Long story short. I'm using a Suzuki DF6 as auxiliary power on a Pearson Triton. Issues with this basically are that the motor is not deep enough in the water, and it cavitates sometimes in swells, but generally has been super reliable and has never been a problem.

I'm on the Jersey Shore and have had some really rough days. First day I was running it hard, it did cavitate a lot but ran reliably and got me through a really frightening entrance into Shark River. I filled up with new gas that day.

Next day out I ended up plowing to windward for hours with the motor running. It got a fair amount of spray up inside. It ran reliably at full throttle for several hours. I was ready to make the entrance to Atlantic City and at that time it sputtered and died. I was able to start it with the choke and it would rev high, I could kill the choke and it might or might not idle but if I engaged it it would die immediately. I ended up calling for a tow. When the tow boat was in the distance (after about an hour), I gave the engine a last pull and it started right up, sounded great.

Trying to keep this shortish.

Basically I'm still having this problem where it starts up fine, it will run fine for about 30 minutes but if I put it at full throttle it will cut out after a bit. Sometimes it's easy to restart, sometimes not. I can now run it at half throttle without a problem, or at least it seems (I keep coming back to the dock).

I'm now in Wildwood. Mechanic has ultrasound cleaned the carb. Oil change. There was a concern that maybe it wasn't cooling right. Water pump and thermostat replaced. Fuel has been replaced and a new sparkplug installed.

Just took it out tonight and had the same problem. I went about 2 miles at half throttle, opened it up and ran it wide for maybe 15 minutes. Then it sputtered and died. Was able to get it restarted, went back to the dock.

Trying to do the deleware and the C&D canal, so I'm kinda stuck until I can get it working.

Any thoughts? I guess next step is the fuel coil and fuel pump?

Also changed out all the gas.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________

__________________
sully75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2014, 18:57   #2
Registered User

Join Date: May 2008
Location: daytona beach florida
Boat: csy 37
Posts: 2,844
Images: 1
Re: Suzuki Outboard keeps dying, any genuises out there?

rebuild the fuel pump. fairly cheap and easy. that was my problem too. after i cleaned the carb a couple of times....
__________________

__________________
Take two at low eight
onestepcsy37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2014, 18:58   #3
Senior Cruiser
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii
Boat: Cascade, Sloop, 42 - "Casual"
Posts: 14,192
Re: Suzuki Outboard keeps dying, any genuises out there?

It sounds like you've done everything I would have done. Sometimes the fuel tank and hose can be the culprit. Make certain the pickup tube has no air leak inside the tank and that the vent on the tank hasn't become clogged. You've had some rough passage and things can go south in a hurry during those shakeups. It's always the carb/fuel system if you can run it at choke but not idle.
Onestep has a great idea too.
Genius but not about Suzukis.
__________________
John
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-10-2014, 07:08   #4
Registered User
 
ranger42c's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Maryland, USA
Boat: 42' Sportfish
Posts: 2,985
Re: Suzuki Outboard keeps dying, any genuises out there?

We've had some issues with fuel line deterioration, where the external tank would end up with small black bits (like course ground black pepper) and they seemed to be causal in some instances.

Another is that the gasket around the vent cap for the internal tank has similarly shed some bits (black dandruff) and I think they too have been part of our occasional problem. (Not sure if your's has an internal tank. Our 5-hp Johnson is actually pretty much a Suzuki DF5...)

Otherwise, as above, carb (you've addressed, fuel pump, excessive alchohol build-up in old-ish supplies of ethanol gas, excessive water build up ditto.

FWIW, if you don't have docs, boats.net has decent parts lists and exploded diagrams...

-Chris
__________________
Selby Bay, South River, Chesapeake Bay, USA.
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-10-2014, 07:27   #5
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,062
Re: Suzuki Outboard keeps dying, any genuises out there?

Not saying this is it, but an ignition coil's failure mode is usually quits when it gets hot.
Once you have eliminated any possibility of fuel delivery issues, like maybe a pinhole in the squeeze bulb, O ring at both ends of the fuel line etc, possibly clogged fuel filter and fuel pump, I'd try ignition coil.
It does sound like a clogged fuel tank vent though, does the squeeze bulb stay full, is it ever squeezed flat when the engine is running hard?
__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-10-2014, 07:30   #6
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,062
Re: Suzuki Outboard keeps dying, any genuises out there?

Motor does have an external tank, right? You haven't moved the tank recently like positioned it much lower than it used to be?
__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-10-2014, 09:02   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 534
Re: Suzuki Outboard keeps dying, any genuises out there?

It appears to be the valve that switches from the internal to external tank. I only run on the internal tank (regrettably) because in think no one ever used the external tank and the connection is corroded. The switch for the internal tank I believe is corroded also. The mechanic bypassed the switch/valve and I just ran it for 30 minutes wide open without any hiccups. I have no idea what could be happening in that valve but I hope this is the end of it. I'm totally paranoid right now but currently it appears like it's working. It's 45 minutes or so to the cape May canal from here so I will have a chance to run it some more.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
sully75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-10-2014, 10:24   #8
Registered User
 
Cadence's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 6,063
Re: Suzuki Outboard keeps dying, any genuises out there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sully75 View Post
It appears to be the valve that switches from the internal to external tank. I only run on the internal tank (regrettably) because in think no one ever used the external tank and the connection is corroded. The switch for the internal tank I believe is corroded also. The mechanic bypassed the switch/valve and I just ran it for 30 minutes wide open without any hiccups. I have no idea what could be happening in that valve but I hope this is the end of it. I'm totally paranoid right now but currently it appears like it's working. It's 45 minutes or so to the cape May canal from here so I will have a chance to run it some more.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
Good luck! I hope you have towing. Outboards seem to be touchiest beasts around.
__________________
Cadence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-10-2014, 11:30   #9
Registered User
 
MBWhite's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Illinois
Boat: Hurley Alacrity
Posts: 370
Re: Suzuki Outboard keeps dying, any genuises out there?

At the risk of sounding redundant about things that most people know about, or should know about, there are 3 items that need to all cooperate for an engine to run- the engine needs to be mechanically sound, the fuel system needs to deliver fuel correctly, and the ignition system needs to spark properly.

So since these 3 things need to work- fuel, ignition, and mechanical- any problem with an engine is caused by one of them not operating correctly.

Now, it can be frustrating when an engine does not work right, but you can usually troubleshoot which system it is. For example, if you are running at speed and the engine starts sputtering and you have an electrical tach make sure to look at it. If the needle bounces up and down or just goes to the peg you probably have an ignition issue. If you can keep that in mind, when you have a sputtering engine just a peek at the tach can help troubleshoot the engine and save both time and money.

Diagnosing a fuel system issue, read this but make CERTAIN you read the caveat right afterwards-
The easiest way to diagnose a fuel system issue is with a can of starting fluid. Just give it a whiff of it and see if the engine fires up. If it fires up and then dies, well you've figured out your system that is not working somehow.

The warning here is that as we all know, 2 stroke engines such as an outboard rely on oil in the fuel to lubricate the engine. If you use starting fluid you run the risk of washing off the oil in the cylinder and on the bearings. So the safest way to handle this is to get an oil squirter can and fill it with pre mixed gas:


An advantage of this type is you can even keep the engine running in an emergency for quite a distance by giving it a squirt every few seconds.

The main issue as I see it (and as mentioned by some of the posters here) is that your symptoms can be caused by either a fuel problem, or also by the ignition coils starting to fail and when they get hot they short out. So if you give it a spritz of fuel and nothing happens you most likely have a bad coil. Sometimes you are able to trouble shoot the coil by giving it a stream of cold air from an air compressor, works fine in the shop but on the boat you can use a can of the compressed air used for cleaning computers. Hold the can upside down, then spray it on the coil to cool it off. If your spark comes back you know you need a new coil.

I'm now in Wildwood. Mechanic has ultrasound cleaned the carb. Oil change. There was a concern that maybe it wasn't cooling right. Water pump and thermostat replaced. Fuel has been replaced and a new sparkplug installed.

Just took it out tonight and had the same problem. I went about 2 miles at half throttle, opened it up and ran it wide for maybe 15 minutes. Then it sputtered and died. Was able to get it restarted, went back to the dock.


Anyway, since you have an oil change it sounds like yours is a 4 stroke. I hope it all gets figured out especially since it sounds like you've already spent some money so make certain the mechanic actually fixes the issue but you might want to bring an oil can and a can of compressed air in your emergency kit at least until you are satisfied the engine won't give up the ghost on you again.
__________________
MBWhite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-10-2014, 12:07   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 534
Suzuki Outboard keeps dying, any genuises out there?

Just ran it for about 3 hours without any problem. Appears to be something with that valve. I think it was either corroded and letting air in or else filled with crud and occluding the fuel. I hope so anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
sully75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-10-2014, 12:18   #11
Registered User
 
Cadence's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 6,063
Re: Suzuki Outboard keeps dying, any genuises out there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sully75 View Post
Just ran it for about 3 hours without any problem. Appears to be something with that valve. I think it was either corroded and letting air in or else filled with **** and occluding the fuel. I hope so anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
Great!
__________________
Cadence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-10-2014, 12:58   #12
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,062
Re: Suzuki Outboard keeps dying, any genuises out there?

Your oil can reminds me of driving home one night in a F250 truck with a bad fuel pump, my friend was under the hood with a Miller beer bottle full of gasoline dribbling it in the carburetor while I drove. You would be surprised how far you can get on one beer bottle full of gas
__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-10-2014, 13:00   #13
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,062
Re: Suzuki Outboard keeps dying, any genuises out there?

For all the two smoke lovers out there, this problem would have probably killed a two stroke, a four stroke can tolerate leaner mixtures than a two stroke can
__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-10-2014, 13:03   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 534
Re: Suzuki Outboard keeps dying, any genuises out there?

What do you think the chances are that it's fixed? The mechanic was scratching his head. Checked the fuel pump, said it was fine. Checked the plug and said it was fine. Checked the compression too.

I asked him about the coil and he said it was very unlikely. Not sure how you diagnose a coil.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
sully75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-10-2014, 14:42   #15
Senior Cruiser
 
s/v Beth's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
Boat: Valiant 40 (1975)
Posts: 4,066
Re: Suzuki Outboard keeps dying, any genuises out there?

Crud in the fuel line is my guess. Some thing ball valving.
__________________

__________________
s/v Beth is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
outboard

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Are There any Truly "Bad" Models of Multihulls Out There? Rohan Multihull Sailboats 11 18-06-2013 13:49
Help with Pactor/Sailmail; Keeps dropping out. nixontankgirl Marine Electronics 4 24-10-2012 15:21
Are There Any Dean Aeros Out There ? niel12 Multihull Sailboats 10 18-08-2012 19:30
Alternator Keeps Dying deepthought Engines and Propulsion Systems 8 25-06-2012 10:09



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:16.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.