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Old 05-02-2013, 15:01   #1
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Stuck Rings...Help!

I have an Izusu 3lb1 diesel (95 hours total time since new) on the genset and it has been sitting for several years while doing a major refit. When I put the boat back into service last January, I changed all the fluids and filters and the motor fired right up. I let it run for about 30 seconds since I had the water intake disconnected and shut it down. Fast forward to this January and I want to bring the genset on line and it will not start.

After doing all the normal trouble shooting (fuel), I pulled the injectors and had them tested (perfect) and then pulled the pumps (perfect) so I was left at looking at the compression. I pulled the intake manifold off and when I cranked the engine, I had exhaust coming out of the top of the engine around the rocker arms. This left me with the only conclusion my little brain could contrive and that is stuck rings so then engine had no compression on any of the cylinders.

The first thing I did was to pour marvel mystery oil into the cylinder heads (via glow plug holes) and roll it over by hand and let it sit. Came back the next day and tried to start the engine and not luck...same problem. A friend recommended using Rislone oil which I poured into the glow plug holes and then rolled the engine by hand and let sit over night. Next day, same result. I poured the entire can into the engine and then spun the engine over several times...each time waiting until I had full oil pressure. Put the engine back together and same results.

I am left with two more things to try and then I am out of airspeed and out of ideas. First, dilute a mixture of Rislone (this product has the viscosity of honey) and Marvel mystery oil together and pour into the cylinder. Put the glow plug back in and then try to hand crank the engine to the TDC and try to hydraulically pressure the mixture around the rings. The second thing (which I am not fond of) is getting the piston to TDC and then tapping on the top of the piston with a bronze or aluminum rod and try to shake the rings free. I that doesn't work, it is tear down time.

Any thing you guys can think of would be a great help.
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Old 05-02-2013, 16:03   #2
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Re: Stuck Rings...Help!

Could you explain this statement more thoroughly: " I had exhaust coming out of the top of the engine around the rocker arms". Do you possibly mean that exhaust was comming up around the pushrods from the crankcase. This could be caused by really severe blowby due to really badly carboned up rings.

Stuck rings (which you may or may not have) should not prevent a diesel from starting unless they are totally carboned up so that you get insufficient compression to fire. Given that it started easily before, I doubt it is that bad.

But you can heat up the engine, stick a hair dryer in the intake and try cranking. If ALL else fails try a little ether.

David
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Old 05-02-2013, 16:24   #3
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Re: Stuck Rings...Help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by djmarchand View Post
Could you explain this statement more thoroughly: " I had exhaust coming out of the top of the engine around the rocker arms". Do you possibly mean that exhaust was comming up around the pushrods from the crankcase. This could be caused by really severe blowby due to really badly carboned up rings.

Stuck rings (which you may or may not have) should not prevent a diesel from starting unless they are totally carboned up so that you get insufficient compression to fire. Given that it started easily before, I doubt it is that bad.

But you can heat up the engine, stick a hair dryer in the intake and try cranking. If ALL else fails try a little ether.

David
That correct David, it is blow by and coming up around the push rods. I have tried the ether and the hair dryer...no luck. Another thing I am going to try is to take the exhaust manifold off and clean carbon off the exhaust valves and give them a little spike at the same time.
Thanks for the feed back
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Old 05-02-2013, 17:40   #4
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Re: Stuck Rings...Help!

Try automatic transmission fluid, GM if ya can find it ! pull injectors and fill upper end with the fluid let it sit a day or two and then try it !! much better then something thick !! Just a old timers trick
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Old 05-02-2013, 17:46   #5
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Re: Stuck Rings...Help!

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Originally Posted by bobconnie View Post
Try automatic transmission fluid, GM if ya can find it ! pull injectors and fill upper end with the fluid let it sit a day or two and then try it !! much better then something thick !! Just a old timers trick
That is basically what I did with Marvel Mystery Oil but I can do transmission fluid also.
Thanks
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Old 05-02-2013, 17:56   #6
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Re: Stuck Rings...Help!

Has something crawled into your crankcase breather and plugged it up? Strange that it doesnt start if it turns over freely.... If you think your rings need freed up, I would start with something thin like kerosene....
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Old 05-02-2013, 18:01   #7
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Re: Stuck Rings...Help!

I don't think it has much compression. Tomorrow, I am going to buy a compression tester and get a finite reading to post on the forum.
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Old 05-02-2013, 18:16   #8
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Re: Stuck Rings...Help!

some say you have to have a screw in tester for diesels.....
Does it spin fast like it has no compression?
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Old 05-02-2013, 18:25   #9
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Re: Stuck Rings...Help!

If the engine turns over briskly with the starter and ether won't start it, then you have something really wrong with that engine. Some possibilities:

1. Blockage in the intake- wasp nest in the air filter or similar
2. Blockage in the exhaust- Maybe the water lift muffler is totally filled with water. My money is on this one as it would explain the blowby coming up by the pushrods. The exhaust has no where to go, so it is pushing past the rings.
3. Badly carbonized rings and no amount of solvent is going to fix them. Solvents can't dissolve carbon. They can only dissolve heavy oil which can release the carbon. But it sounds like you are beyond that now.

David
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Old 05-02-2013, 18:31   #10
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Re: Stuck Rings...Help!

Most if not all small diesel engine compression testers will be fitted in place of the cylinders injector you are testing. Now you say that you have exhaust coming out of the rocker arm area. Could this just be a bit of steam? Or is it actual exhaust? To get exhaust coming from the rocker assembly you would certainly have pretty high amounts of blow by. Another thing is that since you only ran the engine for around 30 seconds after you serviced the fuel filters do you think you could have air in the fuel system ? This would be part of the hard starting issue. To remedy this issue Im sure you know to fill the fuel filters full with diesel.Then if you are still having troubles crack the injector lines one at a time at the pump and crank until the air is purged from the pump then crack and the lines at the injectors while you crank.
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Old 05-02-2013, 19:13   #11
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Re: Stuck Rings...Help!

It could very well be air in the lines. I had an old tractor that if let to sit for a month or so would get air in someplace that would allow the engine to start and run for a minute and then die. Complete bleeding of the system would get it going again until it sat for too long. I suspect the seal on the injector pump leaked, but I just kept firing it up every week and it was no problem. Check on the amount of water in the exhaust as that can be a big problem. Also, it is possible to use too much ether and the engine wont fire. Be gentle with the ether. Little squirts as the engine turns over. Not big long sprays. I play with old tired diesels all off the time in tractors. My newest is 20 years old and my oldest is 77 years old. At some time or another , they are all hard to start. Good Luck.____Grant.____PS, according to a report from an engineering school paper, the best thing to unstick rusty bolts,etc.is a 50/50 mixture of automatic transmission fluid and acetone. I think it would be worth a try with stuck rings even if it is carbon causing it.____Grant.
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Old 05-02-2013, 19:40   #12
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Re: Stuck Rings...Help!

Just another note. Take a glow plug with you when you go to get a tester. The testers are easier to adapt to the glow plug threads than the injector threads._Good Luck.____Grant.
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Old 06-02-2013, 05:57   #13
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Re: Stuck Rings...Help!

You say that you had the fuel components tested, but have you verified that they all work together??? Crack the fittings at the injectors while you are cranking... No fuel spurts, you have a stop solenoid, return and feed lines left to check then...

Compression problem??? Wish you had a decompression lever, but assume you don't on such a small engine... Thinking your "exhaust blowby" is normal crankcase air movement... Definitely check intake and exhaust restrictions as others have pointed out... We will know more after your compression check... If you indeed do get low readings.... Test it again with intake and exhaust manifolds off...

Keep us posted!
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Old 06-02-2013, 06:17   #14
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Re: Stuck Rings...Help!

On the exhaust blockage...I removed the exhaust hose and evacuated all the water remaining in the muffler and turned off the water before I started this. All of the fuel system has been pulled, cleaned, checked and purged and it will still not start with ether assist. The chore for today is remove the exhaust and clean and check the exhaust valves then do the marvel mystery oil/roslone mixture into the cylinders.

Intake blockage is ruled out because I removed the intake manifold and poured marvel mystery oil in the intake and rolled the engine. This served two purposes...1) clean the intake seats and 2) get oil on the top of the cylinders.

I do appreciate everyone's thoughts on this problem...it is what makes this forum the best of the net.
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Old 06-02-2013, 06:45   #15
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Re: Stuck Rings...Help!

When doing the compression test, if its rings putting a small squirt of oil into the cylinder should raise compression dramatically. Its vital to spin an engine over if not start, every 30 days. Seems like lately I've been running into a rash of people who have let their engines sit too long, as well as a project boat that sat too long before I got it. A cylinder with open exhaust valve while sitting is exposed to salt air from the exhaust. Invariably that cylinder will rust along with the valve stem, seat and face. Basically the whole cylinder needs a rebuild.
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