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Old 20-04-2013, 14:38   #76
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Re: Stranded in St Thomas

The key comments so far have been that when everything is connected and installed there isn't any fuel being sprayed from the injector.

Given that the Injection pump has been bench tested and does pump fuel - then I would suggest you are not getting fuel to the injection pump. I had that problem for almost 3 years before somebody told me about the little rubber seals in the engine mounted CAV fuel filter that is mounted in between the engine fuel lift pump and the injection pump.

There is a metal pipe from the engine mechanical lift pump to the CAV fuel filter and then metal pipes from the CAV fuel filter to the injection pump. These pipes fit into the CAV fuel filter and are tightened down with a nut that rides on the metal fuel pipe. However, deep inside the CAV fuel filter where the metal pipe is inserted are very small donut shaped "seals" that prevent air from leaking into the fuel system.

If you have a CAV engine mounted fuel filter check these seals as they get cracked and leak air directly into the injection pump such that the injection pump cannot work.
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Old 21-04-2013, 06:21   #77
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Re: Stranded in St Thomas

You guys were great! Led me exactly where I needed to go.
We finally got it running and what a comedy of errors it was!

We started the engine by by passing the secondary filter and lift pump running fuel directly to the injector pump and bleeding the snot out of it. And you guys are right, it is a BEAST to get bled. The thing that ended up working was to leave the upper bleed port open on the IP while bleeding at the injectors.

When the engine initially died I changed both filters with filters that were left onboard by the previous owner. It turns out that I put a slightly smaller O-ring on the secondary filter which totally occluded the filter journal which wouldn't let any fuel through it even though we could bleed it at the bleed screw just fine. Fuel did get to the IP, enough to fool us when bleeding it, but only through the return line. The pressure line in was completely blocked.

There was a very small hole in the fuel line from the primary filter to the lift pump, which is what probably killed the engine in the first place.

Anyways, I am sure we changed the IP for no good reason. My old IP, which I will assume is a good one, is now floating out somewhere in the US postal service. I hope to track it down someday as a spare to carry with me.

$2500 and 5 weeks later, we are sadly wiser, as I have learned a great deal about my engine. But Dana and I are also very grateful to be back out and sailing today.

And once again, thank you very much for stepping up to help here.

Wayne
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Old 21-04-2013, 06:26   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BozSail View Post
Can you run the engine on an electric fuel pump alone and by-pass the injector pump entirely? Sorry if this is overly simplistic... just trying to help. I have an electric fuel pump on my Perkins 4-108 that I use for priming and bleeding the system (which works great), and I believe the engine will run off the electric fuel pump alone but I have not tried that. Good luck.
That is not even a remote possibility!
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Old 21-04-2013, 06:27   #79
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Re: Stranded in St Thomas

Hooray!!!!!!!!!

Glad you finally solved the mystery. I've had a no crank diesel problem before myself and it can make you tear your hair out.

Enjoy the cruise back to FL AND you get to stop off in the Bahamas.
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Old 21-04-2013, 06:34   #80
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Re: Stranded in St Thomas

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Hooray!!!!!!!!!

Glad you finally solved the mystery. I've had a no crank diesel problem before myself and it can make you tear your hair out.

Enjoy the cruise back to FL AND you get to stop off in the Bahamas.
AND the Spanish Virgins, AND Puerto Rico AND spend some time in the Exumas. Like I said, that was very painful, but good lessons learned and we are just happier than hell to be up and cruising again.

LOL, now I just need to get off line, clean up the gallon of diesel fuel in my bilge and get some sails up. We'll be in Culebrita by tonight!
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Old 21-04-2013, 07:19   #81
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Re: Stranded in St Thomas

Fantastic news Wayne!!!

Good job not giving up.... It definitely was a head scratcher...

Definitely sucks about the $$$, but if you consider it like tuition to a diesel repair workshop, you got the best hands on education money can buy...

PLUS.... The next time you are bobbing up and down next to your neighbor.... And he says... "hey, I got this problem with my engine.... It died suddenly....Like fuel starvation..."

You say... " Last time this happened to me it cost $2500... But for $1250, I'll.....

Or you could do what we all do... help him with your knowledge, and he will repay you with a beer and a lifetime friendship...

Carry on!!!
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Old 21-04-2013, 07:21   #82
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Re: Stranded in St Thomas

In a previous post I questioned whether an electric fuel pump could be used to by-pass the injector pump. I now know that is not possible.

What I should have said is: Is it possible to by-pass the "lift pump" on the Perkins 4-108 with an electric fuel pump? I'm asking because I do not know but was told by a boat surveyor that this could be done.

Just trying to learn more about my engine.

This is a great forum and I learn something every time I read it. Thanks.
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Old 21-04-2013, 07:23   #83
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Re: Stranded in St Thomas

Get off the computer!!!

GO!!!!!
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Old 21-04-2013, 07:29   #84
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Re: Stranded in St Thomas

Wow. This forum actually helped ?
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Old 21-04-2013, 08:07   #85
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Re: Stranded in St Thomas

Quote:
Originally Posted by BozSail View Post
. . . What I should have said is: Is it possible to by-pass the "lift pump" on the Perkins 4-108 with an electric fuel pump? I'm asking because I do not know but was told by a boat surveyor that this could be done. . . .
Yes, it is possible to use an electric diesel fuel pump to bypass or over-ride the mechanical Lift pump.

Walbro makes a sells a UL listed "approved" FRD series electric diesel fuel pump which can be installed downstream of the boat's primary fuel filters and before the engine Lift pump. This pump can be used for some very useful purposes besides electrically supplying fuel to the engine Injection Pump especially if a "bypass" valve is installed to allow fuel from the primary fuel filters to be directed back to the fuel tank(s).

When you change fuel filters there is normally an amount of air in the filter canister. Turning on the Walbro electric pump and opening the bypass valve will suck all the air from the fuel filter canister. Then close the bypass and turn off the electric pump.

The electric fuel pump will pressurize the engine fuel supply system and because the mechanical Lift pump contains two "one-way" valves, allow the electric pump to supply fuel pressure to the injection pump for "bleeding" of the injection pump.

Additionally, if you have installed a "bypass" valve downstream of the electric fuel pump you can use the electric pump to "polish" your tank's diesel fuel utilizing the primary fuel filter.
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Old 21-04-2013, 09:45   #86
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I'm happy to see that you were able to work through it. You're clearly more capable than the average bear. The amount of disassembly and reassembly you accomplished without messing anything up is more than most can do. Don't fret about the spare injection pump. Education is expensive. The diesel courses I took cost $1,000 plus hotel and food costs for 3 days in Annapolis. I didn't get to do all of the stuff you did. Good Luck. Stay safe.
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Old 21-04-2013, 10:14   #87
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Re: Stranded in St Thomas

I think the guy who fixed my Yanmar was named... Butch? He wasnt far from Redhook. Two other mechanics (Antigua and St. Martin failed in in diagnosing it) Is that who's working with you? Glad you got it fixed... something so simple can be a bear to find sometimes..
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Old 21-04-2013, 11:02   #88
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Re: Stranded in St Thomas

Mesmerizing thread! Congrats on the success! How much money did you wind up throwing at the mechanic? That must have been painful.
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Old 21-04-2013, 11:41   #89
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Re: Stranded in St Thomas

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Wow. This forum actually helped ?
/

Apparently Yes, and I learned something about trouble shooting diesel engines in following this thread.
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Old 21-04-2013, 12:51   #90
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Re: Stranded in St Thomas

Pretty expensive O ring!
Great story!
Good sailing!!
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