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Old 19-04-2013, 08:02   #46
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Re: Stranded in St Thomas

I believe it must be very likely the problem is insufficient fuel flow. I have had the mechanical fuel lift pump replaced with an electrical one on my Perkins Prima M50, you might want to try the same, not very difficult job neither pricy.
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Old 19-04-2013, 08:46   #47
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Re: Stranded in St Thomas

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor View Post
DPA-CAV injection pump manual is 1.1MB, too big to attach here... I can email...
I do actually have that manual. The info in it is far beyond what the amateur can work with, but its cool to be able to see what's happening inside it.

But thanks for the offer Happy!
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Old 19-04-2013, 08:51   #48
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Re: Stranded in St Thomas

Wonko, it sounds like you've been given some very good advice and I've nothing technical to offer. If there is anything I can do to assist you from shore, let me know. Who are you using for a mechanic? Who rebuilt your fuel pump?
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Old 19-04-2013, 08:54   #49
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Re: Stranded in St Thomas

If this has already been suggested please ignore as I didn't feel like reading through the entire thread. If you have no fuel to the injectors it could be the fuel rack stuck in the fuel off position.
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Old 19-04-2013, 10:10   #50
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Re: Stranded in St Thomas

So when cranking, if you take injector out of the block you don't see a spray pattern at the nozzle, but you do see diesel dripping at the injector inlet when that nut is loose?
You should do this with all 4 injectors out. It takes a while to get them all to spray. usually one starts, then the rest of them pick up, but after a while, you should easily count the pattern in sequence of firing order, i believe for w40 its, 1,2,4,3. And even when i got to that pattern, the engine was starting but would not run. My nozzle tips were worn. Had to be replaced. I had the shop re-build injectors. They basically changed the tips. And it started right up. They charged 90$per injector to change tips. You can get tips here...
Diesel Injection Nozzle BDN12SD12 Same as ADN12SD12 | eBay
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Old 19-04-2013, 10:28   #51
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You have to stop jumping all over the place. 1st put a squeeze bulb between the tank and primary filter. Use it to fill the primary. From there bleed off your secondary with the squeeze ball. Then make sure you have fuel and tighten all lines. Then go to the in lines on the fuel rail or the injector pump. Loosen all of then but do not remove them. Go back to your squeeze bulb and hand pump until u see fuel out of them once u have tighten them down now loosen each one individually and squeeze fuel through until you have a good stream in each line.
Then go to the out side of the injector pump and try to squeeze fuel through most likely you will not be able to. So loosen each line as someone turns the engine. Getting Fuel?
If you are now go to the injectors and loosen top nut do not remove the injector. Do you have fuel their?
Once every 5 years or so i find an engine if I do not fill all these lines manually the mother will never start. Warning make sure your starter is spinning full rpm and battery is at full charge.

Let me know where the fuel is stuck or maybe it's just going to work

Tony
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Old 19-04-2013, 10:30   #52
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Re: Stranded in St Thomas

Cracked fuel line letting air in?
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Old 19-04-2013, 10:40   #53
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Re: Stranded in St Thomas

It's not a timing issue, the OP states there is no fuel sprayed from the injector. "Hung a known good injector from a running engine off the side of the block on a injector line from the pump and cranked the engine. No fuel sprayed from the nozzle."
You have a blockage, air bubble or bad injection pump, I doubt you'd have 2 bad Inj Pumps.... and you have tried a jerry can and electric fuel pump, so I'm guessing an Air Bubble or complete blockage in the hard lines PRIOR to the injectors (that engine should run well on 3 cylinders so any blockage must be prior to the injector tubes)
Could you use the Jerry can and elect pump directly into the Inj pump and see if the injectors spray?
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Old 19-04-2013, 10:43   #54
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Re: Stranded in St Thomas

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Originally Posted by sailvayu View Post
you say you verified the pump turning with it off but i was talking about with it mouned on the engine. It is possible the the drive gear that drives the pump is broken. I cannot recall if it is a gear or chain on this engine i think it is a gear but it is possible it lost a tooth and will not turn the pump. A remote possibility I admit but you seem pretty convinced it is getting fuel and free of air and the pump has been tested to be working that does not leave a lot left other than the pump not being driven by the engine. Have to eliminate everything one at a time.
This is an interesting thought..... is there a key on the drive gear for the Inj pump? maybe that sheared in the first place and was the only problem all along....
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Old 19-04-2013, 11:09   #55
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Re: Stranded in St Thomas

No key on that pump, spline shaft with one spline larger than the rest. I mentioned earlier you may need to bleed the injector pump.( have not seen it mentioned) If there is air in it, it will not pump fuel to the injectors no mater how hard you try. They tell you to bleed it in the manual after replacing with new or rebuilt pump. There is a screw & nut on the top of the pump for bleeding. Shipped pumps would shipped dry.

John
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Old 19-04-2013, 11:39   #56
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Re: Stranded in St Thomas

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Originally Posted by irwin37 View Post
No key on that pump, spline shaft with one spline larger than the rest. I mentioned earlier you may need to bleed the injector pump.( have not seen it mentioned) If there is air in it, it will not pump fuel to the injectors no mater how hard you try. They tell you to bleed it in the manual after replacing with new or rebuilt pump. There is a screw & nut on the top of the pump for bleeding. Shipped pumps would shipped dry.

John
But he wrote multiple times now that he did bleed the injectors. He noticed fuel being pumped by the high pressure fuel pump but he was wondering at which pressure it can pump. He wrote that he wished he could measure that pressure.

I can't believe that all injectors go bad from one moment to the other either... plus they have been on the bench and tested IIRC.
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Old 19-04-2013, 11:48   #57
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Re: Stranded in St Thomas

Correct, but if there is air in the pump itself the fuel pressure to the injectors will not be enough to pop them, this is why they put a bleeder on the pump. Bleeding the injectors will not get the air out of the pump in most cases because there are high spots that trap air in the pump it self.

Any who I am sure we will here what the caused the problem soon. Good luck, hope the problem gets solved.

John
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Old 19-04-2013, 11:52   #58
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Re: Stranded in St Thomas

Quote:
Originally Posted by irwin37 View Post
No key on that pump, spline shaft with one spline larger than the rest. I mentioned earlier you may need to bleed the injector pump.( have not seen it mentioned) If there is air in it, it will not pump fuel to the injectors no mater how hard you try. They tell you to bleed it in the manual after replacing with new or rebuilt pump. There is a screw & nut on the top of the pump for bleeding. Shipped pumps would shipped dry.

John
I was thinking more on the other end, not the pump end... what drives that inside the front of the engine? It seems the OP hasnt found his original problem yet. I'd be tempted to look in the front end of that engine... if it seems feasible that something might be amiss in there. Remember, in the beginning...the engine just quit entirely..... not like it was starving for fuel and sped up etc.... I've had Perkins 4 cyls running on 3 cyls that were hard to tell anything wrong at all....
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Old 19-04-2013, 12:05   #59
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Re: Stranded in St Thomas

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Originally Posted by irwin37 View Post
Correct, but if there is air in the pump itself the fuel pressure to the injectors will not be enough to pop them, this is why they put a bleeder on the pump. Bleeding the injectors will not get the air out of the pump in most cases because there are high spots that trap air in the pump it self.

Any who I am sure we will here what the caused the problem soon. Good luck, hope the problem gets solved.

John
I agree. I'm blessed with a self-bleeding pump on both engine and genset and I can HEAR them getting rid of air when I have had the fuel system opened up after maintenance.
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Old 19-04-2013, 12:07   #60
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Re: Stranded in St Thomas

True, but if he had a pump failure it would stop the engine cold, new pump would fix it but might have air trapped in it. I think he said he has tried two pumps now. The pump is gear driven. The only way the pump might stop would be if the spline was stripped. but I think he would have noticed when he pulled the first pump. I don't think the gear is broken as he said he has pumped a lot of water tring to start it and the sea water pump is driven off the same gear.

John
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