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Old 27-10-2015, 11:06   #16
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Re: Smoky exhaust, only in Canada

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Originally Posted by Guy View Post
Many turbines can run on straight av gas. You need to adjust the overhaul schedule because the gas leaves deposits on the inside of the engine and they put out less power also because of the fewer BTU's in gas.
I used to run the diesel fuel truck for the helicopter on Jet A all the time. Had a heck of a range with that truck, it held about 900 gal. No idea what it did to the engine, a Cat 3208, which by the way they use in boats also.
This reminds me of a story told to me by a Vet. He said they actually tested the M1A1 Abram with paint thinner. He said it ran no problem, but got terrible mileage. He was pretty convinced that any turbine could run on any liquid fuel.

As to Jet-A in a diesel. Yup, airports run many of their ground vehicles on Jet-A. Jet-A is very different from JP4 though. Jet-A is essentially high grade Kerosene with a small amount of chemicals blended (to adjust freeze and flash point).

Back to the OP post.... I would be ashamed if Deblen's post was correct. I was under the impression that our fuel quality was regulated at the Federal level and the specifications were identicle to the USA. Of course, that might be true for "road diesel" but marine diesel is different.
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Old 27-10-2015, 11:56   #17
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Re: Smoky exhaust, only in Canada

One difference - the diesel I used to buy in the States (Lake Champlain) was tinted red. At our club in Montreal (Dorval), it's clear. Gave me a bit of a start first time I drained the water separator north of the 49th - was used to seeing virtually no water, or one tiny drop at the bottom of the pink, now it 's all the same colour.

Haven't noticed any difference in smoke (or any smoke, actually) either place, except a bit when unning the engine hard to make a lock opening.
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Old 27-10-2015, 12:26   #18
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Re: Smoky exhaust, only in Canada

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One difference - the diesel I used to buy in the States (Lake Champlain) was tinted red. At our club in Montreal (Dorval), it's clear. Gave me a bit of a start first time I drained the water separator north of the 49th - was used to seeing virtually no water, or one tiny drop at the bottom of the pink, now it 's all the same colour.

Haven't noticed any difference in smoke (or any smoke, actually) either place, except a bit when unning the engine hard to make a lock opening.
Red diesel is dyed for tax purposes.
Here in N.B. (and I believe most if not all provinces) we are not allowed to burn tax free red diesel in recreational vehicles/boats. Rec. use fuel here is same as road diesel-clear- & fully taxed. Any red dye found in our rec. veh./boats brings a heavy fine.

..but we have free healthcare.

Note: AFAIK there is no detrimental effect to the thousands of Can. diesels that have been using "smoky" diesel for as long as I can remember.
The environment may be another story....

I am just reporting what I have seen-diesel & furnace from same truck/tanks & from Irving trucks locally.

Cheers/ Len
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Old 27-10-2015, 13:04   #19
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Re: Smoky exhaust, only in Canada

Deblen to the rescue!

Thanks for clearing this up for me! Everything else with the engine's operation was unchanged (including temp), so I figured it had to be fuel. Now we know.

Awesome info, we can check that one off as solved.

TJ
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Old 27-10-2015, 13:14   #20
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Re: Smoky exhaust, only in Canada

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I'm not sure the "Duh" was required..

Many owners DON'T know that. Its not like its common knowledge. In fact, for many boat owners the only diesel they have ever operated is on their boat. I wanted to make sure I clarified so someone didn't have an Elmer Fudd moment.
Ok, just assumed most folks knew jet engines were different than diesels.
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Old 27-10-2015, 13:56   #21
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Re: Smoky exhaust, only in Canada

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Like "Duh", turbines are not very fussy as compared to diesels. The gas mixture likely will preignite. Plus the image of a boat owner pouring gasoline into their diesel tanks brings to mind an Elmer Fudd cartoon.
Easy with the "Duh". Some turbine engines are very fussy. The need for JP-7 fuel as an example.
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Old 28-10-2015, 06:07   #22
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Re: Smoky exhaust, only in Canada

In Canada dyed fuel and stove oil are the same thing, not sure about furnace oil as they sell a couple grades and I've never had an oil furnace, run heavy equipment on the "stove oil" pump all the time. No issues in thousands of hours of HARD use in some terrible conditions from -30c to +30c.
I'm not sure about Canadian fuel being smokier as part of the emissions test for road diesel equipment is a visible smoke test. Not basing this on anything other than the requirements of the e-test.
Very well could be a different blend than the states, also no telling what was really in the storage tanks. I always do the jerry can deal if at all possible, marina fuel is pretty much the worst fuel I've ever found for crud/water be it gas or diesel. Running gas in the current boat, always premium 0% ethanol from a station that does high volume. Always filter it as it's going in the boat and it's filtered between the tank and engine.
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Old 28-10-2015, 08:01   #23
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Re: Smoky exhaust, only in Canada

Diesel fuel that is dyed red & sold at a pump is considered "offroad" fuel. This is typically used in equipment that is not for highway use, tractors, logging equipment, boats. It's the same fuel that you burn in you're heating system at home. It would have a higher sulfur content when compared to highway diesel.
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Old 28-10-2015, 08:20   #24
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Re: Smoky exhaust, only in Canada

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In Canada dyed fuel and stove oil are the same thing, not sure about furnace oil as they sell a couple grades and I've never had an oil furnace, run heavy equipment on the "stove oil" pump all the time. No issues in thousands of hours of HARD use in some terrible conditions from -30c to +30c.
I'm not sure about Canadian fuel being smokier as part of the emissions test for road diesel equipment is a visible smoke test. Not basing this on anything other than the requirements of the e-test.
Very well could be a different blend than the states, also no telling what was really in the storage tanks. I always do the jerry can deal if at all possible, marina fuel is pretty much the worst fuel I've ever found for crud/water be it gas or diesel. Running gas in the current boat, always premium 0% ethanol from a station that does high volume. Always filter it as it's going in the boat and it's filtered between the tank and engine.
I agree with you that Canadian fuel "should" be no different than US.
Canada supplies a lot of fuel to northern US & I'm sure it meets EPA,etc. standards. I'm also sure that most Canadian fuel is up to same standards.
My rant was about the fuel situation in my local area.
I've never experienced dirty/watery fuel locally & there are over 200 comm. boats,many road & comm. use vehicles burning it locally with no problems.
A retailer can,in most places,order whatever "grade" they want.
Not so locally.
I also agree on using non-ethanol gas in everything except road vehicles.
Our local 7% ethanol will bugger carbs on any occasional or seasonal use eqpt. & no local will use it in this type of eqpt.After sitting for 2-3 mos.,it collects enough water to corrode fuel systems,but that is true of ethanol gas anywhere I guess. Biggest "green" farce ever dreamed up. Use food acreage to grow ethanol,use dirty energy to convert it & claim net green benefit-really! P.T. Barnum had it right.

Cheers/ Len
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