Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 16-06-2018, 12:17   #1
Registered User
 
JulianGullsway's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: London
Boat: Endurance 35
Posts: 109
Sick of our 4108 Perkins need suggestions

For those of you who have read some of our previous posts you may well under stand. Ever since we’ve owned Gullsway we have always had the same nagging problem of air getting into the system and making the engine cut out, we have now after quitting work and sailing to the med over a 2 year period had to return to the UK to work and normal life, we now get about 4 week’s sailing a year as she is still in the med so time is precious aboard but the same problem persists during our trip she will run solid for 24 hours with no problem then die we would change filters re bleed and the same would happen then out of the blue it would happen and die often in the worst possible times and to be fair every time we leave port the constant nagging haunts us will it or won’t it die today we have listed a few things to eradicate the problem; new lift pump, refurbished injectors, this week had the fuel injection pump refurbished ( this week as we tried to get to Sardinia) all new copper pipe work every nut and bolt copper washer checked and double checked, additive added to fuel and inspection hatch in the tank checked prior to every journey. To be fair we’re about sick of it....... any recommendations for a re power......sorry for ranting but weve had 2half week’s off work and been launched then re hauled today after having just one night at anchor and decided to just fly home early
JulianGullsway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-06-2018, 12:40   #2
Moderator Emeritus
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,351
Re: Sick of our 4108 Perkins need suggestions

If air is getting into the fuel system, it’s very, very unlikely an engine problem.
Imagine how sick you would be after paying for a repower, to have the problem reoccur
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-06-2018, 12:49   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Now NZ after Med, Middle East, SE Asia, UK
Boat: Moody Carbineer 52
Posts: 148
Re: Sick of our 4108 Perkins need suggestions

Sorry to read your problems. I am in Sardinia right now and at last the weather is getting good.. ( and I love my Perkins engines!)
I had a similar wierd problem with a diesel truck many years back;it was a break in the fuel pick-up tube inside the fuel tank. If I kept the tank over half full I had no problem, but when the fuel level dropped below what I later found out was the level of the crack I would get lousy performance and sometimes a complete engine failure, air in the system being my only clue.
So maybe worth looking for some joint or crack on the intake side where air is getting in? Good luck!
Keith
keithw88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-06-2018, 13:05   #4
Registered User
 
Albro359's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Elyse is in New Zealand
Boat: Amel Super Maramu 2000
Posts: 589
Re: Sick of our 4108 Perkins need suggestions

The air is likely getting in to the fuel system before the engine rather than on it.
Some years ago we had a similar problem and I eventually tracked it down to a faulty water trap, purely by elimination. I took the water trap out of the line and replaced it with a piece of copper tube, and voila no more problems.
I would thoroughly check all the connections between the fuel tank and the lift pump. These are all under negative pressure and that's where air can get sucked in and would cause a problem. After the lift pump everything is positive pressure, if you had an issue there it would be obvious : leaking diesel.
__________________
See you out there ....... Alan S.V. Elyse
now https://svelyse.weebly.com
older https://voyagesofDIVA.weebly.com
Albro359 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-06-2018, 13:06   #5
rbk
Registered User
 
rbk's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Canada
Boat: T37
Posts: 2,336
Re: Sick of our 4108 Perkins need suggestions

I’ve been ordering from parts4engine for the last six months with great success. As mentioned above it’s proably an air leak vs an engine problem. I’d start at the tank and go through the fuel system replacing olives and wrapping couplings throughout. New copper low pressure set of lines from parts4engines is like $40 Canadian and comes with all the tools. The hp lines are harder to source but it can be done.
rbk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-06-2018, 13:07   #6
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 10,594
Images: 75
Re: Sick of our 4108 Perkins need suggestions

i had a problem like this once,it turned out to be the bleed screw thread on the body of the primary fuel filter on the engine .threads were worn and bleed screw allowed air in.
replaced the body housing and no more problems
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-06-2018, 21:26   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Niagara Falls
Boat: Westsail 32
Posts: 629
Re: Sick of our 4108 Perkins need suggestions

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulianGullsway View Post
...all new copper pipe work every nut and bolt copper washer checked and double checked...
It's a little known fact, but when you undo the fuel lines, those copper crush washers are a replacement item. They work harden and will not reseal if you try to reuse them. Accordingly, try replacing every copper crush washer with new (they're not expensive) and see if that solves the problem.

Many professional mechanics don't seem to know this, they blithely break fuel lines and reassemble them using the old crush washers.
Seymore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-06-2018, 22:36   #8
Moderator and Certifiable Refitter
 
Wotname's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: C.L.O.D.
Posts: 20,242
Re: Sick of our 4108 Perkins need suggestions

I'm in the same camp as those who suggest a re-power will be unlikely to fix your problem.
I suggest you replace all your fuel system before replacing the engine. Replace everything, tank, lines, filters and so on right up the injector pump.

You currently have a long term intermittent air leak and you can either sleuth it down to a single component or shotgun the entire fuel delivery system.
__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16-06-2018, 22:52   #9
Moderator
 
Don C L's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Channel Islands, CA
Boat: 1962 Columbia 29 MK 1 #37
Posts: 14,262
Images: 66
Re: Sick of our 4108 Perkins need suggestions

You say it will run fine for 24 hours and then cut out? Is motorsailing involved, is the boat heeled perchance? Maybe a few more clues and it might be easier to target certain probable elements first. I was out with a friend who had that on his MD7A. An hour of wrestling around in contorted cursing we found the culprit, a loose hoseclamp. He too was ready to chuck the engine.
__________________
DL
Pythagoras
1962 Columbia 29 MKI #37
Don C L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-06-2018, 02:28   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Pittwater NSW Aust.
Boat: Jarkan King 40 12m
Posts: 326
Re: Sick of our 4108 Perkins need suggestions

Does your fuel return from the engine go to the tank or to the primary filter?
Bruce K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-06-2018, 05:59   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Now NZ after Med, Middle East, SE Asia, UK
Boat: Moody Carbineer 52
Posts: 148
Re: Sick of our 4108 Perkins need suggestions

wotname suggests replacing the whole fuel feed side; good advice tho I query the need to change the tank itself (but certainly the pick-up tube and related fittings on the top of the tank).
keithw88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-06-2018, 06:31   #12
Registered User
 
NahanniV's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Boat: Wharram Tiki 46
Posts: 1,321
Re: Sick of our 4108 Perkins need suggestions

Do you have a vacuum gauge in the fuel system ?
An obstruction in the fuel system can cause high enough vacuum to draw air into the fuel system through connections or the fuel filter.

I had a similar problem where a large blob (algae?) was intermittently clogging my fuel tank inlet. The engine would suddenly die and the filter would be full of air.
Bleeding the system would resolve the issue; I think that during the bleeding the vacuum would be released and the blob would fall out of the inlet.

A fuel vacuum gauge with a maximum follower helped me understand this problem.

__________________
Cheers,
JM
nahannivatsea.blogspot.ca
NahanniV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-06-2018, 07:45   #13
Now on the Dark Side: Stink Potter.
 
CSY Man's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Palm Coast, Florida
Boat: Sea Hunt 234 Ultra
Posts: 3,962
Images: 124
Re: Sick of our 4108 Perkins need suggestions

We had an intermittent engine once, but a Westerbeke.
We never knew when it would quit so we learned to sail it up the dock.
Finally found the problem: The pick up tube in the tank had a small screen to filter out particles, but it easily got clogged with algae. I removed the screen and that fixed the problem.
__________________
Life is sexually transmitted
CSY Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-06-2018, 07:54   #14
Moderator Emeritus
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,351
Re: Sick of our 4108 Perkins need suggestions

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSY Man View Post
We had an intermittent engine once, but a Westerbeke.
We never knew when it would quit so we learned to sail it up the dock.
Finally found the problem: The pick up tube in the tank had a small screen to filter out particles, but it easily got clogged with algae. I removed the screen and that fixed the problem.


That was the issue with my John Deere 997 lawnmower, what was crazy was it was intermittent and often would restart and run after it sat for awhile.
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-06-2018, 08:11   #15
Registered User
 
pdxsailordiver's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Portland,OR (W7TPH)
Boat: Cascade 42 Maria Victoria
Posts: 325
Re: Sick of our 4108 Perkins need suggestions

I had a very simular problem with my 4-107. Long painful story, but I figured out that the return lines entered both tanks close to fuel pickup tube, but return lines did not have tubes that went too the tank bottom . They ended at a fitting on top of the tank and returned fuel would free fall back into the tank close to the pick up tube.
I installed return tubes that went to the tank bottom and like magic not more air in fuel system.
pdxsailordiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
perkins

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Replacing a Perkins 4108 with Perkins type 404D-15 sleimaniam Engines and Propulsion Systems 1 28-11-2017 11:29
Help! Too Cold, Condensation, Sick, Need Info liveaboardL Liveaboard's Forum 146 17-11-2014 07:45
Perkins 4108 Coolant Prop Movement Pump SV Someday Came Engines and Propulsion Systems 11 01-12-2008 22:07

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:23.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.