Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 03-08-2015, 10:53   #16
Registered User
 
Jman's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Northeast, USA
Boat: Luders 36
Posts: 230
Re: Should I Re-Power 1967 Allied Luders 33 If I Buy Her

We have a 69 Luders 36 powered with a Yanmar 3gm30 (27 hp), dry disp 15,500. Plenty of power to get to hull speed.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________

__________________
Jman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2015, 13:04   #17
Senior Cruiser
 
roverhi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kona, Hawaii, Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1969 Pearson 35 #108 & 1976 Sabre 28
Posts: 6,005
Send a message via Yahoo to roverhi
Re: Should I Re-Power 1967 Allied Luders 33 If I Buy Her

1. DIK the Westerbeke and Perkins were the same engine. Westerbeke bought the Perkins made 4-107 industrial engine and marinized it. Perkins also marinated the 4-107 and sold it under their label. The Perkins 4-107 went into just about everything that needed a small diesel engine from tractors to refrigeration units in the LATE '60S TO THE MID '80s and even longer. They are totally rebuildable and so ubiquitous that parts will be around for a long time. About the only way to kill one is put a rod through the block. Only question might be some of the marinating stuff like manifolds and heat exchangers. As far as efficiency, you'll probably get no more efficiency out of a newer mechanically injected diesel than out of the 4-107 other than possible savings from a lesser displacement engine's lighter parts. So if you want cleaner burning engine go with the new Yanmars with electronic injection and the headaches that will entail.

2. As far as HP, 30 is about the most you will ever need. The displacement design limits top speed to the boats theoretical hull speed. In any case, you will probably cruise at about 2/3rd max rated rpm even with a 20hp engine unless you are bucking into steep seas and a strong headwind. Notice I didn't say anything about current. Current has no effect on the boats speed through the water unless it is a wind/wave against current situation. Current affects speed over the bottom so you will need to increase boat speed through the water to increase speed over the bottom. Going against a 7 knot current in a 7 knot hull speed boat will essentially mean you are parked going nowhere. Increasing HP won't make the boat go appreciably faster through the water, just burn more fuel. Where HP comes into the picture is going against wind and waves, more power can help there but not a lot given prop limitations.

3. When the Luders was built there were precious few small diesels available in the US. Volvo was just pushing into the market with their MD Series of engines which were heavy and noisy. The small tractor diesels are still a gleam in some Asian Farmer's eye. There were some esoteric engines like the SAAB bit little else but the 4-107. Westerbeke/Perkins had been in the market for awhile and the 4-107 was a proven workhorse that went into every thing from production 30 footers to Hinckley 40 footers. It's a smooth running engine that had proven it's reliability. If you thought diesel in those days, the 4-107 was at the top of a very short list. I'll guarantee that Allied put the 4-107 in your Luders because it was about the only thing available not because it needed the horsepower.

QUOTE=red_marine_28;1882603]Whats' the difference between WET and DRY SLEEVES???

1.Because the original engine has been removed and is 35 years old I should install a new engine that will be more efficient and pollute the air less and because it will be a smaller block will provide better access for oil change and maintenance.

2.My main concern is the horsepower question. The Westerbeke puts out 38 HP and the Beta 25 puts out 25 HP. That's a big difference right? I DO NOT WANT TO UNDERPOWER THE BOAT...she has a deep keel and weighs 12,000 pounds...my understanding is that the Beta 25 puts out 25 HP @ 3600 RPM...would it not be better to have a diesel that puts out 25 HP at say 2600 RPM??

3.Allied and the designer of the Luders probably had a reason for powering the boat with 38 HP but I do not know their thinking![/QUOTE]
__________________

__________________
Peter O.
'Ae'a Pearson 35
roverhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2015, 13:36   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Annapolis, Maryland
Boat: Island Packet 31'
Posts: 37
pirate Re: Should I Re-Power 1967 Allied Luders 33 If I Buy Her

Here's the deal
Pay 29,500 and the owner will rebuild and re-install the Westerbeke 4-107.
Pay 22,000 and it is up to me to install a new engine...the Beta 25 has been recommended. And I will need to sell the Westerbeke currently sitting beside the boat.
__________________
red_marine_28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2015, 14:17   #19
Senior Cruiser
 
Sailmonkey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Houston
Boat: '76 Allied Seawind II, 32'
Posts: 5,780
Re: Should I Re-Power 1967 Allied Luders 33 If I Buy Her

As much as I like the old 4-107, I'd jump on the new engine......it's more efficient, lighter and easier to live with.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
Sailmonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2015, 14:31   #20
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,772
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
Re: Should I Re-Power 1967 Allied Luders 33 If I Buy Her

geezizz 29000 usd to rebuild a freeking workhorse diesel????? isnt even a trendy japanese or italian engine nor swedish, either. wotthehell.gag.cough choke. whew.
good christ, mon. you found the ripoff deals of century. especially to rebuild westerfreke.,. puleeeeze.
it was under 4000 usd to rebuild in full and completely a perkins 4-108. but i am in mexico, where english speaking wallet rapers are fewer and father between.
what are reasons for the absurdly high pricing to rebuild a weaterfreke???
those are yanmar and volvo prices.
gads.
glad i had runway in mexico in spanish onlyville. damn.
sounds like ye need to find a mechanic who does not specialize in vovlo or yanmar so you can find appropriately priced diesel repair guy .
buying a newly rebuilt perkins engine is 4500 usd in san diego. cheeeziz.
zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2015, 05:42   #21
Senior Cruiser
 
Sailmonkey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Houston
Boat: '76 Allied Seawind II, 32'
Posts: 5,780
Re: Should I Re-Power 1967 Allied Luders 33 If I Buy Her

[QUOTE=zeehag;1882809]geezizz 29000 usd to rebuild a freeking workhorse diesel????? isnt even a trendy japanese or italian engine nor swedish, either. wotthehell.gag.cough choke. whew.


Ummmmmm 29k is the purchase price of the boat with a rebuilt westerbeke.





Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
Sailmonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2015, 06:09   #22
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,772
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
Re: Should I Re-Power 1967 Allied Luders 33 If I Buy Her

[QUOTE=Sailmonkey;1883220]
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
geezizz 29000 usd to rebuild a freeking workhorse diesel????? isnt even a trendy japanese or italian engine nor swedish, either. wotthehell.gag.cough choke. whew.


Ummmmmm 29k is the purchase price of the boat with a rebuilt westerbeke.





Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
oh ok.... but once rebuilt, it will run looong time
zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2015, 09:26   #23
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,365
Re: Should I Re-Power 1967 Allied Luders 33 If I Buy Her

Quote:
Originally Posted by red_marine_28 View Post
Here's the deal
Pay 29,500 and the owner will rebuild and re-install the Westerbeke 4-107.
Pay 22,000 and it is up to me to install a new engine...the Beta 25 has been recommended. And I will need to sell the Westerbeke currently sitting beside the boat.
Neither , move on. That old boat isn't worth near that much.


Another thing, I have heard that some 4-107 or 4-108's are not sleeved cylinders. I cant remember which or what years etc.
Anyone know?
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2015, 08:06   #24
Registered User
 
malbert73's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Boat: Tartan 40
Posts: 1,032
Re: Should I Re-Power 1967 Allied Luders 33 If I Buy Her

Luders 33 are great. I owned one for 7 yrs. was in great shape with newish yanmar 3YM30 when I sold last summer.

29 hp was more than enough. 25 will be fine. That boat is easily driven. You are limited to 13-14 inch prop with small aperture so you really can't get effective 38 hp anyway. I enlarged my aperture to fit 15 inch 4 blade variprop and only then could I get 6 knots cruising speed and full hp out of yanny 29hp. But prop noise due to reduced tip clearance was fierce when revved up.

So I would say ditch the 4-107. Tough to find parts. Best get that weight out of stern quarter...


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________

__________________
malbert73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
allied

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale: 1966 Allied Luders 33 malbert73 Classifieds Archive 3 18-07-2014 10:16
Allied Luders 33 tcul Monohull Sailboats 4 10-07-2012 07:17
Want To Buy: Allied Luders 33 or Seabreeze 35 OaklandSailor Classifieds Archive 2 20-05-2010 20:29
New to Board-Allied Luders 33 Pirate's Dream Two Meets & Greets 6 23-12-2008 15:44
ssullivan, What was her name? What is her name? Woodsy Multihull Sailboats 1 06-05-2008 19:50



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:10.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.