Salt water in Perkins 4-154 oil sample

[Alan Wheeler]

The oil cooler.

I suggest a great place to start and these ahve failed before.

Oil pressure should be higher than seawater pressure

Only during normal operation. There are some instances where the revers is true. Start up of engine....the water pressure can rise before oil pressure has a chance to get high enough.
And the most usuall, shut down and subsequant cooling of the engine. It doesn't take much salt water to give a reading in the test.
Starfish, I suggest the engine itself will be OK. If you see no other issues, then you shouldn't have any. If it starts OK, runs OK and doesn't excessivly smoke, I suggest you have an issue with that oil cooler. It maybe a simple as a seal issue.

[S/V Elusive]

Perhaps I wasn't real clear. Lets try it again.

I have scanned in the entire 4154 manual. I have it electronically in PDF form. I can email it to anyone who wants it. I need your email addy to do that. Please sent a PM WITH YOUR EMAIL ADDY and let me know if you would like a copy.

Zipped, it is over 37 megabytes. Some emails won't allow that; some email boxes won't store that. You should check that before you request it. It IS possible to break it down by chapter and send it piecemeal. That is a pain in the you know where. I will do that once.

[starfish62]

Hey Elusive,
I sent you a PM yesterday. At least I think I did. I guess that it was not received. Thanks for reiterating the offer. We bought the boat today, and so any problem with the engine is now officially mine, and I would greatly appreciate a copy of the manual. I'll send another PM directly. I'm hoping Wheels is right, and there's nothing wrong with the block or pistons (there is NO smoke in this engine), but the sodium in the oil sample was worrisome. I plan on dropping the oil pan for a thorough flush, changing the oil with ridiculous frequency for the first few months, using some Marvel Mystery Oil in the crankcase, throwing some PRI-D in the fuel, and hoping for the best. I have no idea how many hours this engine has on her, but she sounds great so I'm hoping she can be babied into a few more seasons of sailing.

I've heard good things about the engine. What are your experiences with yours? Any modifications/problem areas you would suggest that I look out for?

Thanks, and fair winds

E

[starfish62]

Wheels, now that I think about it, there was some oil in the exhaust water when we threw the throttle to the stop. That's making me think that the oil coolers are the prime suspect. I bet they're gonna be a #@%! to pull.

[Alan Wheeler]

Don't panic about the water. First thing to check is the oil filler cap on the top of the tappet cover. Unscrew and check the underside of it. If it has a lot of grey'ish nasty slimy sludgy stuff, you need to give the engine a good flush. You may need to remove the tappet cover and clean it. That sludge will be at the top of the engine and that should be al you need to do. Give the engine an oil change. You don't need to flush lots of changes through. Don't use that marbvel mystery crap. Just a good oil and monitor it for any sludge build up. I thoroughly recomend Amzoil full synthetic.
If you can easily get the pan off, then by all means do so and give it a good clean. But if you can't, which is the case with most boats, don't panic about it.

[starfish62]

I'll check the cap out & do as you suggest. The oil pan is situated over a deep bilge, so I think I can get her off and flush the case out. There's a bit of elbow room. A guy in Raiatea, Dominic at Raiatea Carenage (great guy to deal with if you're in FP), suggested to use a synthetic on my old volvo while I was there. He does the maintenance on close to 40 Moorings boats, and a lot of them are cats, so he's looking at about 60 engines a month. He swore that his maintenance costs dropped hugely when he shifted to the synthetic. The bottle he was using was grey, but I can't remember the brand. Is the Amzoil grey?

BTW, Marvel is the best penetrating/lube oil I have ever seen. It bring's dunked outboards back to life.

[Alan Wheeler]

Marvel is the best penetrating/lube oil I have ever seen

I probably used the wrong choice of words. Don't use that type of oil for flushing. It is too thin and if any is left trapped in the engine, it only helps to reduce the lubricating benifits of the proper oil. I do understand what you are trying to do, that is to flush through any water and crap in the engine. But water should drain out just fine anyway. And if you do manage to remove the pan, that sort of clean will be far better than any flush can give it.
Sorry I don't know what the Amsoil Diesel one is yet. I have some on order, but have only used the petrol engine version. That comes in a clear container.
Any full synthetic will be fine. But Amsoil have their own filters and they are very very good. Highly recomended. Large filter capacity and very fine filtration of only 2micron.

DO NOT USE additives.

[starfish62]

I agree with not using oil additives. Just causes problems with viscosity and pooling. Bad, bad, bad. I'll try to find out what synthetic oil the guy in FP was using. They were being supplied either out of Auckland, or Oz, so you should be able to get the same stuff (it might have been Amsoil). I'll check out the Amsoil on this end, as I think an older engine would benefit from a synthetic or semi-synthetic. Everyone around here uses the Shell (Rotella) oil, which is straight dinosaur juice with no synthetic component.

[S/V Elusive]

Starfish - got your email - we effectively have the same thing (manual wise). Congrats on your new "hole in the water".

As for my experiences with the 4154 - they've been great ... if I would just quit feeding it crap fuel. I think that I've finally got a good filtration scheme in effect, and hope not to have that problem again!

Have fun!

[CSY Man]

Everyone around here uses the Shell (Rotella) oil, which is straight dinosaur juice with no synthetic component.

Been very pleased with Shell Rotella in my Perkins.
No sludge, squeaky clean valve cover (Inside) and plenty off lube-life
left as per the oil analysis after a 100 hr. change.

[hellosailor]

Starfish, a gray bottle could also be Mobil1. Which is now sold in full synthetic and two partial synthetics, just to confuse the consumer.

The pros/cons of synthetic oils seem to break down into:
1-It's a better product because it is "built" to a higher spec.
2-Doesn't coke (turn to tar) until much higher temperatures.
3-Usually has more/better additives in it.
4-Oil samples confirm it isn't breaking down as quickly.

And on the "down" side, yes, it does cost a bit more (over $6/qt now), but mainly, it can slip past worn seals in older engines, so they may consume more of it. And as the seals/rings get better lubrication, some folks swear it can create leaks. There were also specific problems related to combustion by-products in turbo-charged aircraft engines that should mean nothing to boat/truck/car users.

But in the last 20 years, even "conventional" oils have gotten much better. Unless your engine is sucking oil, I'd go synthetic. If for no other reason than because it holds up to heat better, and there's always too much tar in old engines run on conventional oils.

[Alan Wheeler]

The main reason I like synthetic oil in a Marine engine is the ability to protect from corrosion, even if the engine has been left idle over winter. If salt water does get into the oil, the parts are protected. Very highly polished surfaces lift cams etc, are very suseptible to rust pitting. A film of synthetics can protect those surfaces. Also synthetics tend to be a better hydrophobic fluid than mineral oil. It is much harder and in some cases just impossible for the synthetic to mix with water at all. So you don't get that sludge build up around criticle areas of the engine. Water simply "boils" off and tends to go to the top of the engine.
The next that the synthetics tend to be far more stable. They do not contribute to sludge and varnish build up in the engine. They also have excellent detergent agencies to keep the engine clean.
There are many very good Synthetics out there. The reason I like Amsoil is not so much for the oil, although I have so far had fantastic results, it is that they have a very very high quality filter available. If you don't use the oil, at least get your hands ont he filters. You could use the best oil created by the hands of God, but without a good filter, it still gets dirty and contaminated by metal which causes wear. A good filter that can minimise those particles is essential.

[hellosailor]

Wheels, the only thing I don't like about Amsoil is the continual "Psst, hey buddy, do you want to become a dealer?" line. I just don't like anything that pushes those kind of deals, even though I keep hearing the product is fine.

[Alan Wheeler]

We don't get that here in NZ. I hope not anyway. But I have alwasy cringed at the name, as it sounds like Amway. And IMO Amyway reps are likened to Carsales people that have become Politicians ;-)
As I said, any good brand Synthetic will do the job. Just ensure it is a Diesel synthetic.

[starfish62]

Wheels, I did a bit of googling and the oil Dominic was using on the entire Moorings fleet in Raiatea was Amsoil. It was a multi grade, but don't remember (5w-40, maybe?) Most of his engines were Yanmar, but he had some Volvos, too. I have used synthetics on 2, high-mileage gas engines with excellent result. The revs at idle on one actually dropped about 200, just when I changed the oil.