Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 06-01-2014, 14:09   #121
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,454
Images: 69
Re: Sail Drives..Like em?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DotDun View Post
Lots of choices when buying a boat, you make your choices and live with 'em.

More downsides in comparison (yes, there is a solution for each one):

- Noise (earplugs?)
- Storage of more volatile fuel (tanks must be in well vented storage locker)
- Longevity (95+% of outboards in junkyards have <1000 hours on them)
- Electricity production (noisy Honda generator?)
4 stroke outboards are a little noisier than inboard diesels. Not much though. You certainly don't need earplugs.

I doubt your figures, but the vast majority of outboard motors are on trailer boats, which don't get much use over the years. Lack of use hurts boat motors more than using them.

Having said that, when I sold a trailer boat I'd had since new, it had over 1000 hours on the motor (Johnson 200 2 stroke) and was still running perfectly and had no corrosion.
Outboards used on charter houseboats usually get well over 5000 hours on them without problems.

Honda generators are less noisy than most wind generators. Solar is quieter still.
__________________

__________________
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2014, 15:01   #122
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Sail Drives..Like em?

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
Mark,
Its easy for your boat to not make John's list as it does not include any of the current French production boats or German production boats...he's not a believer !!
Our boat is on his list and it is not French or German.

Mark
__________________

__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2014, 15:06   #123
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Sail Drives..Like em?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
How light and how well do you sail? In wind under around 7-8 knots we can get pretty close to 100% true windspeed. Around 10 knots we're close to 90%.

Of course sailplan and weight enter into it. Outboards are lighter than diesels. And have zero drag from props and drive legs.
I am willing to put a bet that if your boat had 20hp diesels and saildrives with folding props, your performance would be pretty much equal to what you have now.

You are drawing way too much emphasis on your outboards here, which is discrediting your boat design and build.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2014, 16:15   #124
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,454
Images: 69
Re: Sail Drives..Like em?

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
I am willing to put a bet that if your boat had 20hp diesels and saildrives with folding props, your performance would be pretty much equal to what you have now.

You are drawing way too much emphasis on your outboards here, which is discrediting your boat design and build.

Mark
We've actually briefly sailed in company with a boat of the same design, fitted with saildrives. We were faster. Not by a massive amount, but definitely faster.

It's only logical - with saildrives we'd have more drag, and we'd be heavier, (all other things being equal) so of course we'd be slower.

All I've been doing here is stating facts about how our outboards work for us, their advantages, and how we overcome their disadvantages - which they certainly do have.
__________________
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2014, 16:34   #125
Registered User
 
rjtrane's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Key Largo
Boat: Island Pilot DSe 12m 39'6"
Posts: 17
Re: Sail Drives..Like em?

$35k asking for a good sailboat with a 20 hour diesel? If the remainder of the boat surveys plus the SD and diesel, you don't need advice from this forum. If the price is fair and affordable, buy the boat! I'm running a pair is SDs of 2008 vintage and over 200 hours without a hiccup.

My guess is you may find a similar vintage same make and model with a slant shaft, but most likely original motor.
__________________
Reuben Trane
rjtrane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2014, 17:03   #126
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,172
Images: 15
Re: Sail Drives..Like em?

44cruisingcat

I can't remember what you said you were doing for hot water and power generation?
__________________
tamicatana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2014, 17:05   #127
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Sail Drives..Like em?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamicatana View Post
44cruisingcat

I can't remember what you said you were doing for hot water and power generation?
I think he said he was beating you back to the marina to get first dibs…

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2014, 17:30   #128
smj
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Searunner 38 catamaran
Posts: 3,654
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamicatana View Post
44cruisingcat

I can't remember what you said you were doing for hot water and power generation?
On an earlier post I believe he said solar for power with Honda generator as back up. Hot water I believe propane on demand. With inexpensive solar and on demand hot water heaters, the days of using your diesel to take care of either of these tasks should be over.
__________________
smj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2014, 17:53   #129
Registered User
 
Cotemar's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Boat: FP, Helia 44 Evo
Posts: 5,717
Re: Sail Drives..Like em?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smj View Post
the days of using your diesel to take care of either of these tasks should be over.
REALLY

A boat with diesel engines is charging their batteries and getting hot water as a free byproduct.

With an outboard engine you miss out on both of these freebies.

You must endure doing these two chores at a later time in a nice quiet harbor when everyone else is enjoying dinner and a nice cold glass of wine your firing up that Flippin Loud quiet Honda 2000 and firing up the gas fired hot water heater.

It takes the suckyness factor up a notch when everyone is enjoying themselves and you’re eating dinner with no ice and listing to your favorite Honda 2000 vibrations.
__________________
Cotemar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2014, 18:05   #130
smj
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Searunner 38 catamaran
Posts: 3,654
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cotemar View Post

REALLY

A boat with diesel engines is charging their batteries and getting hot water as a free byproduct.

With an outboard engine you miss out on both of these freebies.

You must endure doing these two chores at a later time in a nice quiet harbor when everyone else is enjoying dinner and a nice cold glass of wine your firing up that Flippin Loud quiet Honda 2000 and firing up the gas fired hot water heater.

It takes the suckyness factor up a notch when everyone is enjoying themselves and you’re eating dinner with no ice and listing to your favorite Honda 2000 vibrations.
Wrong again Cotemar. I think you missed the part of Honda generator as BACKUP. Solar is quiet NON polluting power. From our experience we lived of solar and maybe had to run the Honda one day out of maybe 45. As the hot water heater, it is silent. Free byproduct my ass. If you stay anchored in one place for awhile YOU have to run your motor in that anchorage daily to charge your batteries and make hot water. You and your diesel exhaust fumes and noise are the ones that ruin the anchorage because your to cheap to purchase inexpensive solar panels and take advantage of things like on demand hot water. Heres a clue, on demand means NO wasted energy.You should really do some thinking before posting something ridiculous like this.
__________________
smj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2014, 18:11   #131
Registered User
 
thomm225's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Hampton Roads
Boat: 1974 Bristol 27
Posts: 3,451
Re: Sail Drives..Like em?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjtrane View Post
$35k asking for a good sailboat with a 20 hour diesel? If the remainder of the boat surveys plus the SD and diesel, you don't need advice from this forum. If the price is fair and affordable, buy the boat! I'm running a pair is SDs of 2008 vintage and over 200 hours without a hiccup.

My guess is you may find a similar vintage same make and model with a slant shaft, but most likely original motor.
You are right about finding similar vintage boats although different models with the original engines. Funny thing is when you ask CF members you get stuff like that Westerbeke with 2500 hours on it is barely broken in. (we just love our old engines on here)

I was also looking at a couple Sabre 34's both with 27hp FWC Westerbekes and slant shafts. And yes Mark, they are both on the old Mahina List of good Offshore Boats as is btw my Bristol 27!

But a 2008 20 hp Volvo and Saildrive with 20 hours is not bad either................

btw the boat's PHRF is around 132-138. not as fast as a catamaran but it will move on out. (and) it has tiller steering! which is all I've ever had on my sailboats: 4 small racing catamarans (no motors on either) and my Bristol 27. I wouldn't know what to do with a wheel taking up the whole cockpit!
__________________
thomm225 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2014, 18:18   #132
smj
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Searunner 38 catamaran
Posts: 3,654
Quote:
Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post

You are right about finding similar vintage boats although different models with the original engines. Funny thing is when you ask CF members you get stuff like that Westerbeke with 2500 hours on it is barely broken in. (we just love our old engines on here)

I was also looking at a couple Sabre 34's both with 27hp FWC Westerbekes and slant shafts. And yes Mark, they are both on the old Mahina List of good Offshore Boats as is btw my Bristol 27!

But a 2008 20 hp Volvo and Saildrive with 20 hours is not bad either................

btw the boat's PHRF is around 132-138. not as fast as a catamaran but it will move on out. (and) it has tiller steering! which is all I've ever had on my sailboats: 4 small racing catamarans (no motors on either) and my Bristol 27. I wouldn't know what to do with a wheel taking up the whole cockpit!
Your kidding me. A PHRF of 132-138 is a better rating than most catamarans. I love outboards, but if this was my dreamboat I wouldn't let saildrives deter me, especially with the low hours. I say buy!
__________________
smj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2014, 18:24   #133
Registered User
 
Cotemar's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Boat: FP, Helia 44 Evo
Posts: 5,717
Re: Sail Drives..Like em?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smj View Post
Wrong again Cotemar. I think you missed the part of Honda generator as BACKUP. Solar is quiet NON polluting power. From our experience we lived of solar and maybe had to run the Honda one day out of maybe 45. As the hot water heater, it is silent. Free byproduct my ass. If you stay anchored in one place for awhile YOU have to run your motor in that anchorage daily to charge your batteries and make hot water. You and your diesel exhaust fumes and noise are the ones that ruin the anchorage because your to cheap to purchase inexpensive solar panels and take advantage of things like on demand hot water. Heres a clue, on demand means NO wasted energy.You should really do some thinking before posting something ridiculous like this.
I do have diesel engines and 460 watts of SunPower solar panels.
No worries here mate.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Catatude SunPower panels1.jpg
Views:	56
Size:	399.0 KB
ID:	73419   Click image for larger version

Name:	Catatude SunPower panels2.jpg
Views:	50
Size:	401.7 KB
ID:	73420  

__________________
Cotemar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2014, 18:37   #134
Registered User
 
Mirage Gecko's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sunshine Coast Hinterland
Boat: Seawind 1200 TEC 3
Posts: 430
Re: Sail Drives..Like em?

Cote mar
That's pretty impressive motoring at 7.5 knts with 1 engine and 10 with two.
With one at around 2600 I'm lucky to get 5 SOG in reasonable conditions although only have 20hp Yanmars and folders.
We chartered a Mahe couple years back and would not quite do 8 flat out on two but can't remember what motors were fitted.
I like my sail drives but that's what is in the current boat I also liked the shafts,stern drives and outboards in my previous boats.Ive never really been in a position to choose what to fit from scratch but what was already fitted has never been a factor in choosing a used boat if in good nick.
Chris
__________________
Mirage Gecko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2014, 18:42   #135
smj
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Searunner 38 catamaran
Posts: 3,654
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cotemar View Post

I do have diesel engines and 460 watts of SunPower solar panels.
No worries here mate.
You are really confusing me.First you tell me how power and hot water are a "free" byproduct of a diesel, now you tell me you have a full solar array. What do you use, the solar or the diesel, or both? We try to leave a small environmental footprint, thus the outboards as we should be able to sail more. And the solar as its free non polluting energy. The hot water heater? Well maybe not as small a foot print as we would like!
__________________

__________________
smj is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
sail

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Feature Requests bdbcat OpenCPN 2490 Yesterday 17:08
Rounding Up... Other Tactics & Questions Rich_Maler General Sailing Forum 94 11-12-2012 20:09
Lipari 41: Sail Drives and Props Cotemar Fountaine Pajot 4 09-10-2012 03:29
Pennant at top or bottom ? macbeth Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 23 06-06-2012 19:05
Z Drives for Sailing Yachts - Love em' or Leave 'em . . . Gone2long Propellers & Drive Systems 0 26-07-2011 06:07



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:59.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.