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Old 05-08-2007, 16:52   #16
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China can OBVIOUSLY make good stuff


VW-China
VW tests China diesel waters - Michael Wilkes discusses Volkswagen-China and diesel vehicles - Brief Article - Interview Diesel Fuel News - Find Articles

Nissan-China
Nissan Diesel to Tie with China Dongfeng Unit

Deutz-China
German Diesel Maker: Made In China To Be Exported to the World

Toyota Prius-China
Green Car Congress: Sichuan FAW Toyota Starts Prius Production in China

Audi-China
Welcome to Audi China > About Audi > News

That was a couple of minutes of looking.

Dave
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Old 05-08-2007, 17:18   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cat man do
China can OBVIOUSLY make good stuff

That was a couple of minutes of looking.

Dave
Maybe... but we don't get any of the "good stuff" on this side of the Pacific. We only get the garbage - gensets that last 200 hours, meat grinders lubricated with used motor oil, fans from West Marine that have wiring so tiny, it nearly burns your fingers when the fan is on, chain hooks that rust away in weeks while in use on your snubber (as opposed to seasons with my American one), pet food ingredients loaded with melamine....

The list goes on and on and on. We are very VERY careful to not buy anything made in that country (or even Mexico and Canada, just to help our home economy) unless there is no other alternative. Unfortunatley, for some products, there is no other alternative.

We won't eat any food from China.
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Old 05-08-2007, 17:23   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by never monday
Personally I find it hard to support a country or system that doesn't recognize patents or property rights.
Or human rights, or pollution output,and last but not least the quick buck by putting melamine in the pet food!!!!!

(But seriously Steve, tell us what you REALLY think!)

Steve B.
PS I am NOT a tree hugger!
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Old 05-08-2007, 17:32   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Knight
Sadly if one was to magically eliminate every thing Chinese from WAL-MART the manager would be standing in the middle of a nearly empty store, probally in his undies! We can all see it happening, and can't do a durn thing about it! Watch out for the cliff, it's coming!
It wasn't all that long ago that Walmart proudly claimed that ALL of it's merchandise was made in the USA. Then they got busted, so they went for almost totally imported crap from China. I wouldn't step foot in their stores unless there was absolutely NO OTHER place to buy what I needed (which isn't much).
Free marketplace is nice, but the U.S.A. is being crapped on by US!

Steve B.
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Old 05-08-2007, 18:17   #20
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Hmmm.... Talk about thread drift......

This isn't a political issue as in Democrat vs Republican. This is a "Have Not" vs Those that "Have" debate.

We've been told for years that Free Market Trade works. Now we find that it does work, but only for Multinational corporations. We've been told that we have to think International. Now, 15 years later, we wake up from a deep slumber to find out that most of our $40.00 per hour skilled labor positions are gone, only to be replaced by $10.00 per hour jobs. How is somebody supposed to support a family and buy a house on that? Unless you're Harry Potter, it can't be done.

Even Architects, Tax preparers, accountants, engineering jobs have gone overseas. The charts that track average yearly income for the USA worker, have been going negative the last two years. We make less now than three years ago, but the cost of living keeps going up. Who exactly is all of this benefiting? Not the people here in the good old USA......

This country not only doesn't make much of anything anymore, our currency is falling like a lead weight and we have more debt per capita than third world nations.

I really feel for young people these days. With the current mortgage crunch, pretty soon very few people will be able to buy a home. They might as well save their pennies to buy the chinese stuff at Walmart because they can't afford much else anyway.

Just my opinion (....OK.... it's a rant)
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Old 05-08-2007, 19:30   #21
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More ranting -- When we sent our technology to Japan they made things better and cheaper for us. Germany did too for awhile before that. Now, the Chinese are going to do the same and the difference is they have a country large enough to supply all the natural resources that they need. They have the manpower to supply all the workforce that they need and they don't have eco watchdogs to complain when they pollute. Handwriting is on the wall. Hope we'll be prepared to compete. So far we are not.
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Old 05-08-2007, 19:40   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickm505
Hmmm.... Talk about thread drift......

This isn't a political issue as in Democrat vs Republican. This is a "Have Not" vs Those that "Have" debate.

We've been told for years that Free Market Trade works. Now we find that it does work, but only for Multinational corporations. We've been told that we have to think International. Now, 15 years later, we wake up from a deep slumber to find out that most of our $40.00 per hour skilled labor positions are gone, only to be replaced by $10.00 per hour jobs. How is somebody supposed to support a family and buy a house on that? Unless you're Harry Potter, it can't be done.

Even Architects, Tax preparers, accountants, engineering jobs have gone overseas. The charts that track average yearly income for the USA worker, have been going negative the last two years. We make less now than three years ago, but the cost of living keeps going up. Who exactly is all of this benefiting? Not the people here in the good old USA......

This country not only doesn't make much of anything anymore, our currency is falling like a lead weight and we have more debt per capita than third world nations.

I really feel for young people these days. With the current mortgage crunch, pretty soon very few people will be able to buy a home. They might as well save their pennies to buy the chinese stuff at Walmart because they can't afford much else anyway.

Just my opinion (....OK.... it's a rant)
To a similar degree we have exactly the same happening in Australia.

But at the end of the day, like America, we all demand cheap product.

As I pointed out with those link's China can and infact does produce Quality good's, like most countries.

And like most countries, it can also produce crap product, America and Australia included.

But at least the crap product from China is cheap, The crap from America and Australia and any other place NZ,UK,France etc etc is not.

Cry all you like, but this is how it is.

Jump on board, work with it, and plan for the change,

Or get left behind.

Dave
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Old 05-08-2007, 20:14   #23
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My friend, things are probably very different where you live.

Here in the USA 14 million homes were sold with subprime , Prime or ALT-A ARM mortgages in the last two years (existing home sales and new homes combined). A similar amount in refinances. All of these loans are beginning to reset at a new higher rate and the homeowners can't afford their payments. These are homes that have whatever the USA average family is these days..... let's say 3.2 people in them? 14 mil purchases +14 mil in refis x 3.2 people is damn near 1/3 the population of this country at risk of losing their homes.

My friend, those numbers are mind boggling and is the reason Wall Street is tanking. Having you mention that these folks should all get used to it isn't going to have much acceptance here.
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Old 05-08-2007, 22:06   #24
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"I am wondering how long it will be before the brand names are made there if they are not already doing that now?????? "
A lot of companies will not set up manufacturing of any kind in China because too many Chinese play a game: They set up your plant and run it during the day, then make faithful copies (more or less) or all your equipment, and go set up a cousin to knock it off down the block. Having access to the actual equipment, so you can copy it without having to go out and BUY it, makes the job much easier.
This is seen as a good thing for the family...and the Chinese government sees it as local development.

Part of the legacy of knowing that you live in the Middle Kingdom, and those dumb hairy barbarians are just one step above apes.

I suspect the Chinese government knows exactly how much their disrespect for Western customs (patents, trademarks, safety regulations) costs them, and they THINK it is still more profitable to allow all the shady business to continue. Although I'd heard that one of the bigwigs responsible for some of the food adulteration/poisonings was condemned to death, I suspect they either grabbed a sacrificial goat or he forgot to pay someone protection monay.
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Old 05-08-2007, 22:33   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor
"I am wondering how long it will be before the brand names are made there if they are not already doing that now?????? "
.
Those link's in post 16 are big brand names doing stuff in China

Dave
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Old 05-08-2007, 22:39   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickm505
My friend, things are probably very different where you live.

Here in the USA 14 million homes were sold with subprime , Prime or ALT-A ARM mortgages in the last two years (existing home sales and new homes combined). A similar amount in refinances. All of these loans are beginning to reset at a new higher rate and the homeowners can't afford their payments. These are homes that have whatever the USA average family is these days..... let's say 3.2 people in them? 14 mil purchases +14 mil in refis x 3.2 people is damn near 1/3 the population of this country at risk of losing their homes.

My friend, those numbers are mind boggling and is the reason Wall Street is tanking. Having you mention that these folks should all get used to it isn't going to have much acceptance here.
It could be argued that Australia may be heading for a bit of the same.

Plenty of NO-Doc LO-Doc loans here in Australia, where 10 years ago these people would not have had a hope in hell of getting finance, and now they are getting BMW's and living in $600,000 first homes.

An Interest rate rise of a few point's could well see a lot of these people go to the wall as well.

While It won't be in the same scale as the US, purely because we don't have the same population, it will non the less hurt a lot of people.

Dave
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Old 05-08-2007, 23:11   #27
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I do not know why you are complaining about China not recognizing foreign patents. Suprise, suprise: USA does not recognize foreign patents either. Chineese only produce what they are asked to (and then some). And yes, greedy unions can bring down even the most robust and successful companies. Most smart ones move to China as much as possible before it happens.
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Old 06-08-2007, 03:14   #28
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I actually think most of the posts above are side-stepping the real problem.

The problem that I see is that natural resource's are fadeing,In the past 150 yrs we as people have raped the earth and squandered these resource's to the point where eventually we will have to do more with less.If ya take this example for instance.For the past 20yrs all the Iron ore that Japan imported from OZ has not been used,its been stored in a few differen't ways.Twenty four hrs a day they lay big plastic tubes filled with the ore pellets in their bays.They have been building new roads alongside the existing ones,but built up a bit with iron ore and covered over with an easy to remove surface.They also sink woodchip the same way in the harbours.Japan is a country with little natural resource's,but,has more natural resource's in reserve than any other country in the world.Just imagine when solid wood is not affordable anymore what the price of woodchip is going to be worth when squashed together with glue and made into building/furniture products.****,what is gonna be the price of iron ore in the same respect.

It dosn't really matter where anything is being made,sooner or latter every thing is gonna run low/out and any manafacturers are gonna thin things out and/or ask more in price.Outsourceing the manerfacturing of products is the second step in the process of running short on materials.The first step would obviously be to recognise this and store the recource's in the first place.

I don't think that China is the problem for America,Australia,Canada or any of the "Big leaders" of past.I think that China is more the "Indicator" of whats really happening.We are deffinately living in the last Quarter of the good life.Maybe,the next 50yrs will support my little/big theory.

I for one would have prefered to have been born 100 yrs ago,but deffinately,would not like being born 15/20 yrs from now.Mudnut.
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Old 06-08-2007, 05:12   #29
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Mudnut is right - China is not really the problem... just the indicator and the most clear example.

It is a very clear picture of the way things are heading if we continue on the track we are all on.

Personally, I buy things that are 4x the price just to be sure a local person or company gets my money. Why? I'd rather support someone locally and keep them in business than have them competing with me in my market, or worse... have them too poor to participate in the local economy, taking an extra dollar out of my pocket.



Quote:
Originally Posted by rickm505
I really feel for young people these days. With the current mortgage crunch, pretty soon very few people will be able to buy a home. They might as well save their pennies to buy the chinese stuff at Walmart because they can't afford much else anyway.

Just my opinion (....OK.... it's a rant)
Rick, I see you understand my old political rants from years gone by on this board. THIS is why I live on a boat, as I have said before. It's either that or become a rent slave. There are no other options for those who didn't come into money or buy houses before the boom. On the upside, when the baby boomers die (no offense intended... it will happen to all of us), there will be a glut of housing here that just might not be filled up by all the new immigrants. A lot of bommers have more than one house. THEN we might see the prices come in line with wages.

Anyway, definitely run from the chinese diesel engine. All politics aside, you will have to install engines every year or so if you get one. Do your country a favor and buy something made within its borders. Fight globalism with your wallet.

FYI: Globalism and free trade aren't anything new. Before the Americas were even discovered, metals were being sent to other countries to be fashioned into items that could be re-imported and sold in their home country at tremendous profit. Our problem is with the corporations that have taken over the world - the corporations that transcent borders and governments seeking to promote capitalism. As I've said in other threads... cheap junk at high prices is what capitalism demands. It's all about maximizing profits so that shareholders win out. If you want to win in capitalism, don't work - invest.
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Old 06-08-2007, 05:25   #30
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I make my living in the mortgage industry. Late last week the secondary mortgage markets collapsed. What this means is that in addition to the free fall in stock prices, credit availability has almost come to a complete stop.... I have a meeting this morning to discuss options in advance of the Fed meeting tomorrow.

The last time this happened it was 1929.

Look out folks, this isn't a good thing....
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