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Old 05-05-2016, 09:17   #16
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Re: Repowering - NC, come help us?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jstevens View Post
I think with a $3K budget and apparently no personal experience with engines, you're best options are the already mentioned outboard or finding a free engine with transmission and a mechanic willing to do the job for $3K.
After a repower, many owners will give away the engine just to get rid of it. If there is a Tartan 34 owners group, it might be the source of an engine that will be a drop-in replacement.
Overall, I think the best option would be the outboard. It will at least get you from Snead's Ferry to New Bern.

John
I am starting to think that you may be right... Outboard installation is something we can handle. But a diy inboard installation seems pretty complex. And without limitless funds, it seems like a can of worms situation. My fear is that we purchase an engine, try to install it ourselves, fail due to unforeseen complications, and wind up paying as much as it would have cost to have a new engine installed by a pro. Which I cannot afford this year. Bakers do not make big money...
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Old 05-05-2016, 09:34   #17
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Re: Repowering - NC, come help us?

Yes, go with the outboard, projects like this that you sit down and think you can do it for X amount of money seem to grow arms and legs, a life of their own, if you have refurbished an old house for example, same kind of thing, costs rapidly get out of hand.
I'd do the outboard, and put off the new inboard till the future after you get the rest of the boat like you want it, and if you aspirations are the ICW, who knows the outboard may be all you need.
There are many advantages to inboard Diesels of course, but an outboard doesn't take space inside the boat, weighs less, the inside of the boat is much quieter with an outboard than with a Diesel in the room with you hammering away, you can take an outboard to the shop as opposed to having to pay the mechanic to do a house call, a new outboard costs less than a lot of major Diesel repair jobs and used ones are more available.
Just keep the gas outside of the hull, do not put a can where it could leak in the hull
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Old 05-05-2016, 09:34   #18
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Re: Repowering - NC, come help us?

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Off subject: I spent a year living onboard in New Bern (2009-2010), and I would have loved to have had good bakery close by.

John
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Old 05-05-2016, 09:38   #19
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Re: Repowering - NC, come help us?

RE: engine size.

Pushing a sailboat has not always been done to the best advantage of diesel engines.
Ideally you want the greatest prop diameter possible using the lowest reduction gear, i.e. transmission. 3+ to one being better than 2 to one.
Problem is wide fixed propeller drag and more important the space available: 1/2 Diameter + 15% at the prop center end to the hull bottom.
Because of the designed space restriction most sailboats have a reduction gear closer to 2 to 1.
Having changed from 2 to 3 to 1 the difference is HUGE. I made the space.

So if a smaller engine with a 3 to 1 transmission and you have the space at the prop end 25 hp would be sufficient.
Pitch is an entirely different matter and more closely aligned with max possible speed in accordance to speed/length ratio and displacement.

After all this I'm sorry I may have confused the issue.

Simply;

10,000$ and DIY instalation of a newer engine VS 3,000$: repair the engine that was in the boat.
An outboard on a 34 ft boat is a certainly a temporary and depreciating fix.
All old engines can be repaired successfully.
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Old 05-05-2016, 09:42   #20
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Re: Repowering - NC, come help us?

With money so tight, I think a stern mounted 25" shaft hi thrust outboard is the way to go. You'll still need a $400 outboard mount. I'm pushing a 5000 lb 25' oday with a 6 HP Tohatsu. And its just fine. For your boat, a 15 HP hi thrust 4 cycle would be OK. A 9.9 may be marginal in windy weather. If you are using a 4 cycle and have electric start, this would get you where you need to go with a minimum of complication and expense. Swapping diesels is complicated and very expensive, with mounting mods, transmission changes shaft length changes, prop, etc. etc. Better off keeping it simple
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Old 05-05-2016, 09:55   #21
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Re: Repowering - NC, come help us?

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With money so tight, I think a stern mounted 25" shaft hi thrust outboard is the way to go. You'll still need a $400 outboard mount. I'm pushing a 5000 lb 25' oday with a 6 HP Tohatsu. And its just fine. For your boat, a 15 HP hi thrust 4 cycle would be OK. A 9.9 may be marginal in windy weather. If you are using a 4 cycle and have electric start, this would get you where you need to go with a minimum of complication and expense. Swapping diesels is complicated and very expensive, with mounting mods, transmission changes shaft length changes, prop, etc. etc. Better off keeping it simple
Yes, I'm starting to see the light... I simply cannot afford to do the inboard this year, but, with enough saved cash next year, I think we can pull it off. I just received a quote of 11000 for a new beta. And a rebuild is a possibility, but that too might quickly become too expensive for me at this time, as the old engine has not been well maintained, from what I have been told.
Perhaps I could find a straight out of trade school, aspiring marine mechanic to tinker with the old farymann on their leisure time. Maybe next year I could come back to NC with a working rebuild awaiting me.
Does anyone know of such a person looking for an engine to practice their skills on??? I would be able to pay some cash down for materials, and if the rebuild is successful, I would certainly be willing to pay more upon completion.
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Old 05-05-2016, 09:56   #22
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Re: Repowering - NC, come help us?

It's a tough one. One has to wonder why a used engine is available....? You have that risk in buying used. So be careful.
You are going to have to learn to be a mechanic of sorts. It's inevitable. It's not brain surgery, but can get complicated. Measure, measure, measure. There are many ways to make an engine fit an existing bed, or worst case you will have to redo the whole bed.
Some other considerations:
-If the shaft has been sitting for a long time, pull it out, check for pitting where it is inside the stuffing box. Clean it up if not pitted and repack the stuffing box while you are at it. If pitted replace it.
-Make sure the prop you have will be the right rotation for the engine you get. Otherwise you will be buying a prop to. It may be likely you will be anyway as the pitch may not be suitable for the new engine.
-Diesel tank: how long since that old diesel has been used? Is it accessible? If the tank is in the bilge under the floor consider it iffy.
-Finally, be sure to give yourself a lot of time to get the work done while the boat is out of the water. It can be a long haul replacing an engine etc. Make sure the yard you use will allow you to stay without $ penalty for a couple of months.
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Old 05-05-2016, 10:20   #23
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Re: Repowering - NC, come help us?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CamWrenRoo View Post
Well, that was the original plan, actually. I would much rather have my engine outside... But, it seems tragic to put an outboard on such a pretty stern...
The outboard doesn't have to go on the stern; you can build an outboard compartment for it. James Baldwin of Atom Voyages describes how he converted a 28 footer. I know he converted other boats too. He seems to be a fan of outboards on small sailboats.

Atom Voyages - Outboard motor well for a Taipan 28 sailboat

Keep us posted on how you progress on this project!
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Old 05-05-2016, 10:27   #24
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Re: Repowering - NC, come help us?

Many, many years ago when I first got married I had a 71 VW Superbug and a 71 Wesfalia Camper, I was already a pretty accomplished mechanic, but I ran into this book
http://www.amazon.com/Keep-Volkswage.../dp/1566913101

The basic concept of this book was if your driving a Volkswagen, you can't afford to pay someone else to fix it, and shouldn't for that matter as the maintenance is just too simple to pay someone else to do, and if you want it done right, do it yourself

Many years later, even though by all accounts I make enough money so that I should be paying other people to do the "menial" work, I still do all normal maintenance of all vehicles I own. It's just not that hard really.

I'd maintain that just like driving a Volkswagen, if your a live aboard or cruising in a 40 yr old boat, you can't afford and shouldn't pay someone to do your maintenance
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Old 05-05-2016, 10:41   #25
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Re: Repowering - NC, come help us?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jstevens View Post
Good luck with whatever you decide.

Off subject: I spent a year living onboard in New Bern (2009-2010), and I would have loved to have had good bakery close by.

John
Isn't there a bakery there? I swear I saw one... Thank you for your help!
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Old 05-05-2016, 10:49   #26
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Re: Repowering - NC, come help us?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CamWrenRoo View Post
Well, that was the original plan, actually. I would much rather have my engine outside... But, it seems tragic to put an outboard on such a pretty stern. If all else fails, we will go for it.... So, your 9.9 pushes your boat in the ICW? How's your fuel economy? Do you have any issues with currents? I was thinking about a 9.9 high thrust, there's one for sale in my area for cheap, and it's a 25 in shaft. too... I have to say, I would love to get rid of the seat that coves my engine, it's a bit awkward in the cabin with it in there. And no smelly engine sounds fantastic... The old diesel apparently had a bad leak, because our cabin smelled of diesel until we scrubbed the bilge and engine compartment...
Fuel economy is about 2/3 gallon per hour at 4.5 knots and no current - about 1/2 throttle. I can get to 5.5 in smooth water, but don't like to strain things if I don't have to. The 9.9 (hi thrust, 25 shaft) will push against currents and waves better than you'd think when you need to, but I try to avoid it because it isn't fun to burn all that fuel and make small progress. I'd rather throw down the anchor if I can until the current is in my favor.

Oh, another downside is large following seas. I've never had the outboard swamped, but have had to lash it in place to keep it tilted up. I'd like to get a mount that lifts the motor vertically out of the water instead of tilting.
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Old 05-05-2016, 10:50   #27
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Re: Repowering - NC, come help us?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun and Moon View Post
The outboard doesn't have to go on the stern; you can build an outboard compartment for it. James Baldwin of Atom Voyages describes how he converted a 28 footer. I know he converted other boats too. He seems to be a fan of outboards on small sailboats.

Atom Voyages - Outboard motor well for a Taipan 28 sailboat

Keep us posted on how you progress on this project!
Sun and moon - this is incredible, awesome idea!!! The tartan has an accessible hatch right at the back of the cockpit, with not much going on down there - just storage... So... I'm am very intrigued.
Two concerns - My husband would most likely have a stroke if I started hacking into the back of the boat... And then I would have sail single handed. (*joke!!)
And - would such an alteration lower the resale value?? I mean, from my perspective, having it rigged that way would be a selling point, but you know how folks are about classics... I would be so happy to get all that space in the cabin back. Maybe it would be worth it. And besides, we have no intention of selling her, any way!
Has anyone out there done this???
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Old 05-05-2016, 10:55   #28
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Re: Repowering - NC, come help us?

Seems to be enough Atomic fours available. Why not just go with that? Do you absolutely have to have diesel?
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Old 05-05-2016, 10:56   #29
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Re: Repowering - NC, come help us?

Ok This will get tons of flames
But an idea might be to put in an
Atomic 4
I know it's gas with all the associated issues
But you can get them cheap, plenty of
Used and New engines + Parts available
Check out Moyer Marine
Had one on my Ericson 27 for years
I'd check eBay
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Old 05-05-2016, 11:01   #30
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Re: Repowering - NC, come help us?

Quote:
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Hello folks,
My husband and I are preparing to repower our tartan 34c in June. And, while my husband has a lot of experience sailing, we have never owned our own boat before, so the mission to repower is a bit intimidating. We need help!! .............................

........................ and a yanmar 2GMF (small - only 15 hp, but fresh water cooled) Any thoughts?
Thank you!!!!
I was drawn back to your first post with this mention of the Yanmar being too small at 15hp. If this is available at a good price, you might want to investigate that hp rating further. Yanmar rates their engines by hp after the transmission while most others are rated before the transmission. This will make the Yanmar 15 more like an 18+. I'm pretty confident about this, but get some back-up about this from another source.
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