Repowering costs.

[chris_gee]

I am looking at picking up a boat in the US. Both roughly 35'. One at say 11,000 lb has a Volvo 2003 28 hp. I gather this is not a good option at 23 years old.
The second sort is say 20,000 lb and has 7000 hrs on it in same years which suggests low load recharging and I suspect neglect.
For budgeting, thinking negotiating purposes can anyone give an idea of the costs of replacement.
I think maybe 28 hp in case 1 possibly beta for various reasons, and 40 in case 2 maybe yanmar.
Would 15K, and 20 k US be about right?
Thanks.

[Boracay]

I've been told that the rule of thumb for a repower is to find the cost of the replacement engine and to double that.

I did my own work, but from what I have seen it would give a rough estimate for negotiating purposes.

Don't forget that a repower can also involve :-
cleaning/replacing/rerouting fuel tanks/lines/filters/auxiliary pumps etc.
modifying/fixing/replacing/rerouting electrical wiring/switches/panels/fuses etc.
modifying/fixing/replacing/rerouting control pod/cables/brackets etc.
modifying/fixing/replacing/moving propeller/stern gland/couplings/engine mounts etc.
modifying/fixing/replacing/rerouting exhaust system etc.
modifying/fixing/replacing/rerouting raw water strainer/hoses etc.
upgrading the gearbox.
changing the run-in oil at correct intervals.

The good part is that when it is over the engine and all ancillary components might be better than new.

[never monday]

a 2003 is a great engine

[chris_gee]

Ok you are a commercial vendor representing a variety of brands. You may well be right. I would not know either way - I just relied on internet comments. The prices cited for some common parts were absurd. I essentially asked what repowering costs were. Thanks Boracay for pointing out the complexities.

[never monday]

Originally Posted by chris_gee

Ok you are a commercial vendor representing a variety of brands. You may well be right. I would not know either way - I just relied on internet comments. The prices cited for some common parts were absurd. I essentially asked what repowering costs were. Thanks Boracay for pointing out the complexities.

Repowering costs can vary depending on the condition of the vessel. You didn't identify the engine in the second vessel. I can't make assumptions there.
In the first. Most any 30hp unit will exchange with the Volvo. You will probably need to replace ancillary hoses and fittings. When a repower package is sold. They include transmission, mounts, harness and panel. I'd assume 10-12K for that repower.
Again, the 2003 is a great engine. I could find other ways to spend 10-12K on the boat other than repowering to remove good equipment.

If my opinion is not supporting what you already believe and want confirmed. Please advise, I'll take my experience some where else.

[chris_gee]

Not at all no offence was intended. I have seen your helpful comments repeatedly in various threads.
As I said "You may well be right. I would not know either way - I just relied on internet comments."
I have heard repeated comments on Volvo spares prices.
I don't have a belief about the 2003, but neither do I wish to spend significant amounts I can avoid by trying to become informed. The source of my concern was Volvo-Penta 2000: Worst ship diesel engine I have no way of knowing the credibility of the information there nor whether it represents a consensus. You disagree with it and as I said may well be right.

[David M]

Originally Posted by Boracay

I've been told that the rule of thumb for a repower is to find the cost of the replacement engine and to double that.

I did my own work, but from what I have seen it would give a rough estimate for negotiating purposes.

Don't forget that a repower can also involve :-
cleaning/replacing/rerouting fuel tanks/lines/filters/auxiliary pumps etc.
modifying/fixing/replacing/rerouting electrical wiring/switches/panels/fuses etc.
modifying/fixing/replacing/rerouting control pod/cables/brackets etc.
modifying/fixing/replacing/moving propeller/stern gland/couplings/engine mounts etc.
modifying/fixing/replacing/rerouting exhaust system etc.
modifying/fixing/replacing/rerouting raw water strainer/hoses etc.
upgrading the gearbox.
changing the run-in oil at correct intervals.

The good part is that when it is over the engine and all ancillary components might be better than new.

Thats a good rule of thumb. I repowered a year ago. The engines were 60K and the total cost was just over 100K.

Volvo is famous for catching newbies with their pants down. Although their engines are inexpensive initially, their parts are outrageously priced. Volvo uses the same marketing model as computer printer manufacturers with their proprietary and very expensive ink cartridges. I would never own a Volvo for that reason. Their parts can take much longer to get than what is typical.

[Artful Dodger]

I repowered a 33Morgan O/I with a 30ym Yanmar, with purchase of engine new shaft and all added changes the finish price was 20,000 Canadian, the engine cost me 12,000 taxes in. Very pleased with out come. Would recommend that an engine oil testing program be used after re power.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by chris_gee

... The source of my concern was Volvo-Penta 2000: Worst ship diesel engine I have no way of knowing the credibility of the information there nor whether it represents a consensus. You disagree with it and as I said may well be right.

Do you have any idea who is behind the "SKIPPER INFO"* website, and who has provided the anonymous opinions?
I wouldn't place too much faith in the reports of those who won't identify themselves (except "Deep throat" ).
Notwithstanding, should they provide accurate reports on a number of subjects, which you can otherwise confirm absolutely; my faith would increase.

* Skipper product information worldwide

[hellosailor]

I read that "infocenter" page with great suspicion. Just about every comment from every alleged source is in the same badly broken English that is so common in spam schemes. If the folks posting those opinions were simply posting opinions--they would do so in their own languages, or someone would note they were translating. The fact that they are going out of their way to post comments about Volvo, and all using the same badly structured English to do it, points to the comments all coming from one same source and being unauthentic.

That pretty much jumps out to any native English speaker. The same way that "I am looking at picking up a boat in the US. Both roughly 35'." told me immediately that English is not your primary language.

Many of us might not order Volvo as the preferred engine in a new boat, but many of us would have no problem sailing with one or using one either. ANY old used engine can be a problem, that's just one hazard of looking at boats long distance.

[never monday]

To make an accurate estimate of the repower. I'd need to know the hull the engine was to go in.
Would I be afraid of buying a boat with a Volvo, no way. IMHO, Volvos excluding the 2010, 2020, and 2030 are worth hanging on to. Yes some parts can be expensive. I just got off the phone ordering a used starter for an MD11 for $500. Don't ask the new price.
On a few of the systems there are areas that will require more attention than other motors. Volvo is notorious for using o-rings to seal the cooling system. It works great for the life cycle of the O-ring. But most people think they are life time parts. Unfortunately when running in salt water the cooling system should be disassembled and cleaned periodically. Well it turns out that if you follow the recommended maintainance and replace the parts as they should be. The cooling system works just fine.
The 2003 your looking at is well built. I like the individual injector pump set up. The lift pump could be in a better place but does fine there. The raw pump is easy to get to.

[Maren]

Well, while we are at it, which other engines do you really like? And, more importantly, which ones would you steer clear of?

... as an average owner, not a professional mechanic

[never monday]

Originally Posted by Maren

Well, while we are at it, which other engines do you really like? And, more importantly, which ones would you steer clear of?

... as an average owner, not a professional mechanic

This is a hard question to answer. I like most all engines, except V-8's that burn that inferior hydrocarbon mix. It goes back to mental scars of my youth.

All the brands have pluses and minuses. Depending on what boat it's going in. I like Yanmar, Volvo, Cummins, newer Westerbekes. Universal, Beta, Nanni and Phasor are all built on Kubota. The base engines are good. They all can have problems with cooling systems and each is slightly different. Perkins is not one of my favorites. Cat's are great but, there exceptionally proprietary.

[David M]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

I read that "infocenter" page with great suspicion. Just about every comment from every alleged source is in the same badly broken English that is so common in spam schemes. If the folks posting those opinions were simply posting opinions--they would do so in their own languages, or someone would note they were translating. The fact that they are going out of their way to post comments about Volvo, and all using the same badly structured English to do it, points to the comments all coming from one same source and being unauthentic.

That pretty much jumps out to any native English speaker. The same way that "I am looking at picking up a boat in the US. Both roughly 35'." told me immediately that English is not your primary language.

Many of us might not order Volvo as the preferred engine in a new boat, but many of us would have no problem sailing with one or using one either. ANY old used engine can be a problem, that's just one hazard of looking at boats long distance.

I think Yanmar might be hiring the same people from Nigeria that write the email scams.

[lannen]

I recently had my old worn down Perkins 4-108 pulled out and replaced with a Yanmar 4JH. The new engine was just under 10K.

I just couldn't bring myself to use the old prop, shaft, cutlass bearing.... so new as well.

Then, as long as the engine was out, might as well pull the old leaky fuel tank out and replace it as well, and since were up on the hard lets give it a bottom job, and since the bilge is ripped up, what the heck, yank out the crappy water tanks too. Hey, what is the rotted wood, under the cabin sole??? Well, what the heck, lets replace that too. Hummmm.... might as well put in a new water pump, dang, can't go using the old faucet with this nice new water system... and on and on and on...

The Yanmar needed slightly different mounts which added to the cost, along with lots of little things. All in all, I have to agree with the previous statement made where you take the cost of the engine, and double it. Then see how much more you have to do everything else...

I can only speak about the engine I'm using, the Yanmar. I'm very pleased with it and have no regrets with this choice.