Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 08-04-2008, 01:46   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 249
Repowering costs.

I am looking at picking up a boat in the US. Both roughly 35'. One at say 11,000 lb has a Volvo 2003 28 hp. I gather this is not a good option at 23 years old.
The second sort is say 20,000 lb and has 7000 hrs on it in same years which suggests low load recharging and I suspect neglect.
For budgeting, thinking negotiating purposes can anyone give an idea of the costs of replacement.
I think maybe 28 hp in case 1 possibly beta for various reasons, and 40 in case 2 maybe yanmar.
Would 15K, and 20 k US be about right?
Thanks.
__________________

__________________
chris_gee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2008, 02:59   #2
Moderator
 
Boracay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Pelican Bay, Great Sandy National Park
Boat: Steel Roberts Offshore 44
Posts: 5,175
Images: 18
Rule of thumb...

I've been told that the rule of thumb for a repower is to find the cost of the replacement engine and to double that.

I did my own work, but from what I have seen it would give a rough estimate for negotiating purposes.

Don't forget that a repower can also involve :-
cleaning/replacing/rerouting fuel tanks/lines/filters/auxiliary pumps etc.
modifying/fixing/replacing/rerouting electrical wiring/switches/panels/fuses etc.
modifying/fixing/replacing/rerouting control pod/cables/brackets etc.
modifying/fixing/replacing/moving propeller/stern gland/couplings/engine mounts etc.
modifying/fixing/replacing/rerouting exhaust system etc.
modifying/fixing/replacing/rerouting raw water strainer/hoses etc.
upgrading the gearbox.
changing the run-in oil at correct intervals.

The good part is that when it is over the engine and all ancillary components might be better than new.
__________________

__________________
Rust never sleeps
Boracay Blog.
Boracay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2008, 18:21   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,901
a 2003 is a great engine
__________________
never monday is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2008, 01:47   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 249
Ok you are a commercial vendor representing a variety of brands. You may well be right. I would not know either way - I just relied on internet comments. The prices cited for some common parts were absurd. I essentially asked what repowering costs were. Thanks Boracay for pointing out the complexities.
__________________
chris_gee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2008, 04:27   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,901
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris_gee View Post
Ok you are a commercial vendor representing a variety of brands. You may well be right. I would not know either way - I just relied on internet comments. The prices cited for some common parts were absurd. I essentially asked what repowering costs were. Thanks Boracay for pointing out the complexities.
Repowering costs can vary depending on the condition of the vessel. You didn't identify the engine in the second vessel. I can't make assumptions there.
In the first. Most any 30hp unit will exchange with the Volvo. You will probably need to replace ancillary hoses and fittings. When a repower package is sold. They include transmission, mounts, harness and panel. I'd assume 10-12K for that repower.
Again, the 2003 is a great engine. I could find other ways to spend 10-12K on the boat other than repowering to remove good equipment.

If my opinion is not supporting what you already believe and want confirmed. Please advise, I'll take my experience some where else.
__________________
never monday is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2008, 10:19   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 249
Not at all no offence was intended. I have seen your helpful comments repeatedly in various threads.
As I said "You may well be right. I would not know either way - I just relied on internet comments."
I have heard repeated comments on Volvo spares prices.
I don't have a belief about the 2003, but neither do I wish to spend significant amounts I can avoid by trying to become informed. The source of my concern was Volvo-Penta 2000: Worst ship diesel engine I have no way of knowing the credibility of the information there nor whether it represents a consensus. You disagree with it and as I said may well be right.
__________________
chris_gee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2008, 10:29   #7
Moderator Emeritus
 
David M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay
Boat: research vessel
Posts: 10,150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boracay View Post
I've been told that the rule of thumb for a repower is to find the cost of the replacement engine and to double that.

I did my own work, but from what I have seen it would give a rough estimate for negotiating purposes.

Don't forget that a repower can also involve :-
cleaning/replacing/rerouting fuel tanks/lines/filters/auxiliary pumps etc.
modifying/fixing/replacing/rerouting electrical wiring/switches/panels/fuses etc.
modifying/fixing/replacing/rerouting control pod/cables/brackets etc.
modifying/fixing/replacing/moving propeller/stern gland/couplings/engine mounts etc.
modifying/fixing/replacing/rerouting exhaust system etc.
modifying/fixing/replacing/rerouting raw water strainer/hoses etc.
upgrading the gearbox.
changing the run-in oil at correct intervals.

The good part is that when it is over the engine and all ancillary components might be better than new.
Thats a good rule of thumb. I repowered a year ago. The engines were 60K and the total cost was just over 100K.

Volvo is famous for catching newbies with their pants down. Although their engines are inexpensive initially, their parts are outrageously priced. Volvo uses the same marketing model as computer printer manufacturers with their proprietary and very expensive ink cartridges. I would never own a Volvo for that reason. Their parts can take much longer to get than what is typical.
__________________
David

Life begins where land ends.
David M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2008, 11:02   #8
Registered User
 
Artful Dodger's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Boat: 42 Passage CC
Posts: 177
Images: 7
Send a message via Skype™ to Artful Dodger
I repowered a 33Morgan O/I with a 30ym Yanmar, with purchase of engine new shaft and all added changes the finish price was 20,000 Canadian, the engine cost me 12,000 taxes in. Very pleased with out come. Would recommend that an engine oil testing program be used after re power.
__________________
Artful Dodger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2008, 12:13   #9
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,572
Images: 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris_gee View Post
... The source of my concern was Volvo-Penta 2000: Worst ship diesel engine I have no way of knowing the credibility of the information there nor whether it represents a consensus. You disagree with it and as I said may well be right.
Do you have any idea who is behind the "SKIPPER INFO"* website, and who has provided the anonymous opinions?
I wouldn't place too much faith in the reports of those who won't identify themselves (except "Deep throat" ).
Notwithstanding, should they provide accurate reports on a number of subjects, which you can otherwise confirm absolutely; my faith would increase.

* Skipper product information worldwide
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2008, 12:37   #10
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,022
I read that "infocenter" page with great suspicion. Just about every comment from every alleged source is in the same badly broken English that is so common in spam schemes. If the folks posting those opinions were simply posting opinions--they would do so in their own languages, or someone would note they were translating. The fact that they are going out of their way to post comments about Volvo, and all using the same badly structured English to do it, points to the comments all coming from one same source and being unauthentic.

That pretty much jumps out to any native English speaker. The same way that "I am looking at picking up a boat in the US. Both roughly 35'." told me immediately that English is not your primary language.

Many of us might not order Volvo as the preferred engine in a new boat, but many of us would have no problem sailing with one or using one either. ANY old used engine can be a problem, that's just one hazard of looking at boats long distance.
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2008, 13:13   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,901
To make an accurate estimate of the repower. I'd need to know the hull the engine was to go in.
Would I be afraid of buying a boat with a Volvo, no way. IMHO, Volvos excluding the 2010, 2020, and 2030 are worth hanging on to. Yes some parts can be expensive. I just got off the phone ordering a used starter for an MD11 for $500. Don't ask the new price.
On a few of the systems there are areas that will require more attention than other motors. Volvo is notorious for using o-rings to seal the cooling system. It works great for the life cycle of the O-ring. But most people think they are life time parts. Unfortunately when running in salt water the cooling system should be disassembled and cleaned periodically. Well it turns out that if you follow the recommended maintainance and replace the parts as they should be. The cooling system works just fine.
The 2003 your looking at is well built. I like the individual injector pump set up. The lift pump could be in a better place but does fine there. The raw pump is easy to get to.
__________________
never monday is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2008, 14:50   #12
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Eastern Seaboard
Boat: Searunner 34 and Searunner Constant Camber 44
Posts: 949
Well, while we are at it, which other engines do you really like? And, more importantly, which ones would you steer clear of?

... as an average owner, not a professional mechanic
__________________
Regards,

Maren

The sea is always beautiful, sometimes mysterious and, on occasions, frighteningly powerful.
Maren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2008, 15:14   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,901
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maren View Post
Well, while we are at it, which other engines do you really like? And, more importantly, which ones would you steer clear of?

... as an average owner, not a professional mechanic
This is a hard question to answer. I like most all engines, except V-8's that burn that inferior hydrocarbon mix. It goes back to mental scars of my youth.

All the brands have pluses and minuses. Depending on what boat it's going in. I like Yanmar, Volvo, Cummins, newer Westerbekes. Universal, Beta, Nanni and Phasor are all built on Kubota. The base engines are good. They all can have problems with cooling systems and each is slightly different. Perkins is not one of my favorites. Cat's are great but, there exceptionally proprietary.
__________________
never monday is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2008, 23:11   #14
Moderator Emeritus
 
David M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay
Boat: research vessel
Posts: 10,150
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
I read that "infocenter" page with great suspicion. Just about every comment from every alleged source is in the same badly broken English that is so common in spam schemes. If the folks posting those opinions were simply posting opinions--they would do so in their own languages, or someone would note they were translating. The fact that they are going out of their way to post comments about Volvo, and all using the same badly structured English to do it, points to the comments all coming from one same source and being unauthentic.

That pretty much jumps out to any native English speaker. The same way that "I am looking at picking up a boat in the US. Both roughly 35'." told me immediately that English is not your primary language.


Many of us might not order Volvo as the preferred engine in a new boat, but many of us would have no problem sailing with one or using one either. ANY old used engine can be a problem, that's just one hazard of looking at boats long distance.
I think Yanmar might be hiring the same people from Nigeria that write the email scams.
__________________
David

Life begins where land ends.
David M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2008, 00:28   #15
Registered User
 
lannen's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Gulfport Fl
Boat: Endeavour CC 40' AbbyGale
Posts: 177
Images: 9
I recently had my old worn down Perkins 4-108 pulled out and replaced with a Yanmar 4JH. The new engine was just under 10K.

I just couldn't bring myself to use the old prop, shaft, cutlass bearing.... so new as well.

Then, as long as the engine was out, might as well pull the old leaky fuel tank out and replace it as well, and since were up on the hard lets give it a bottom job, and since the bilge is ripped up, what the heck, yank out the crappy water tanks too. Hey, what is the rotted wood, under the cabin sole??? Well, what the heck, lets replace that too. Hummmm.... might as well put in a new water pump, dang, can't go using the old faucet with this nice new water system... and on and on and on...

The Yanmar needed slightly different mounts which added to the cost, along with lots of little things. All in all, I have to agree with the previous statement made where you take the cost of the engine, and double it. Then see how much more you have to do everything else...

I can only speak about the engine I'm using, the Yanmar. I'm very pleased with it and have no regrets with this choice.
__________________

__________________
S/V AbbyGale
lannen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
repowering, proper prop sizing? wantokex Construction, Maintenance & Refit 1 26-03-2008 14:14
Repowering questions? Bombay77 Engines and Propulsion Systems 8 15-01-2008 12:37
repowering with a chinese diesel viking69 Engines and Propulsion Systems 45 11-08-2007 14:31
repowering emeraldsea Engines and Propulsion Systems 8 21-07-2007 00:28
Repowering an Islander 36 Charlie Engines and Propulsion Systems 8 21-03-2006 14:31



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:35.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.