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Old 17-04-2014, 12:35   #1
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Repower Westerbeke 4-107 and tranny

Greetings,
This site has such a wealth of knowledge...I thank you for participating. Newbies like me would be lost without your words of wisdom. Ok...now the dumb questions. 1) My Westerbeke 4-107 in my 73 Morgan 41 o/I is dead. I've found a perkins 4-108 with low hrs. (lifeboat usage) My boat is NOT easily accessible and is in the water. I do NOT know what the transmission is and since it was under water I believe it is shot too. I believe the tranny was an off set model but I do NOT know for sure. 2) Was there a standard tranny that was married to this Westerbeke engine? I believe them to be originals.
Since the tranny was underwater, and a long ways away...numbers are problematic. Is the only way I can really tell what I have...to pull it out and get a good look? 3) Are the tranny bolt housings the same or will I run into an adapter plate issue as soon as I get them together? along with shaft lengths/prop sizes/through hulls/carrier bearing??
I know some will recommend a new engine, but due to the old girls condition and location and my budget, I think this is the best option. But...I'm open to all thoughts. Thanks much.
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Old 29-04-2014, 05:56   #2
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Re: Repower Westerbeke 4-107 and tranny

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddiefuego View Post
Greetings,
This site has such a wealth of knowledge...I thank you for participating. Newbies like me would be lost without your words of wisdom. Ok...now the dumb questions. 1) My Westerbeke 4-107 in my 73 Morgan 41 o/I is dead. I've found a perkins 4-108 with low hrs. (lifeboat usage)

***I have had several of these "lifeboat" 4.108's, tested, serviced and found to be in excellent condition. They are maintained regularly by professional engineers on board.

My boat is NOT easily accessible and is in the water. I do NOT know what the transmission is and since it was under water I believe it is shot too. I believe the tranny was an off set model but I do NOT know for sure.

***OI 41's had Borg Warners and Hurth/ZF's. Borg Warners are by far the better of the two. Check with Dr. Diesel at Foley, "They are $1 dollar an hour transmissions, cost about $1,500 and last about 1,500 hours". Borg Warners are very robust, durable and re-buildable. I rebuilt the 71-C in my Cal 46 in 1987. Now, 27 years later and 3,600 hours it is just fine with only routine maintenence.

2) Was there a standard tranny that was married to this Westerbeke engine? I believe them to be originals.
Since the tranny was underwater, and a long ways away...numbers are problematic. Is the only way I can really tell what I have...to pull it out and get a good look?

***Some Westerbeke 4.108's for lifeboats had Paragons :-(. Pull it and see if it will float. Check the build/serial number on the engine. It should be stamped into the block on a flat by the fuel injection pump. Look it up to determine the date built.

3) Are the tranny bolt housings the same or will I run into an adapter plate issue as soon as I get them together? along with shaft lengths/prop sizes/through hulls/carrier bearing??

***The tranny/bell housings should be the same as they were standardized about 50 years ago. Some do require an adapter ring for BW's. Available at Trans Atlantic Diesel.
***Depending on what tranny it has, the overall length may be different, i.e., reduction gears are longer. You may need to move the engine forward or shorten the propellor shaft.

I know some will recommend a new engine, but due to the old girls condition and location and my budget, I think this is the best option. But...I'm open to all thoughts. Thanks much.
***I am known to be biased toward older, slow turning, well built diesel engines over the newer high revving screamers, like Yanmars. I will take a re-manufactured Perkins 4.108 over a new Yanmar any day.
I get complete rebuild kits for a 4.108 for about $600, which includes, new cylinder liners, pistons, rings, valves and valve springs, bearings, seals & gaskets. I can order these on line at anytime. You must buy Yanmar parts from their "dealer" only and $600 may get you a gasket set.

Send a PM if I can help.

Tom
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Old 30-04-2014, 23:16   #3
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Re: Repower Westerbeke 4-107 and tranny

Thank you Skipper. I picked up a Perkins 4-108 today...around 400 hrs. I have a hard time talking down an engine that can run for 10,000 hrs and can be rebuilt for 600$ worth of parts. I'll not do much of the install myself since it is my first and experienced labor is pretty reasonable in Panama.
I'm sure I'm in for a learning experience. But I've read enough that I plan to keep the operation in the ADVENTURE category rather than the ORDEAL bin.
My next task will be to take the engine/tranny out ...there at the dock.
I'm replacing a Westerbeke 4-107 with the Perkins 4-108. I don't know what I'll get into with motor mounts and/or shaft lengths. ???
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Old 01-05-2014, 06:12   #4
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Re: Repower Westerbeke 4-107 and tranny

The brackets that attach to the engine and trans may be slightly different. You can probably use the brackets from your 107. The brackets vary by the boat builder and/or installer, but all are similar.

The engine mounts, that is the rubber cored mount that attaches to the bracket and boat stringer, should be in excellent condition. Examine them carefully, looking at the rubber, condition of the bolt and nuts. If any question, replace them for about $50 each in Florida.

Does the 4.108 come with a trans? If you re-use your old trans, then the footprint will be the same. If you are replacing a Paragon, ZF or Hurth with a Borg Warner Velvet Drive, it will be longer. You may need to move your engine forward, shorten the prop shaft or both.

Look at the trans you have and compare with those on Marine Transmissions - Home Page
I have already addressed my experience with various trans, but IMHO the Borg Warner is superior.

Yes, there are some qualified technicians in Panama. But, things may have changed since we came through the Panama Canal, May 17, 1990.
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Old 01-05-2014, 13:31   #5
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Re: Repower Westerbeke 4-107 and tranny

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the 4-107 and 4-108 are essentially the same engine sans a few improvements (depending who you ask) with the chief difference of wet and dry cylinders and bolt sizes on the head??

If that is a correct, I would go with the same make gearbox to keep everything as simple as possible. If incorrect, discount the above...

I did help remove an engine from an OI 41 (happened to be working on our old boat in the yard at the time they needed more man power) in the late 80's and as I recall it was a bear to get the thing out of there.
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Old 01-05-2014, 21:28   #6
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Re: Repower Westerbeke 4-107 and tranny

Tdoster
Ha....thanks for the encouragement. The O/I main cabin engine room access door is a little larger so I plan to bring her out...and in there. I need to visit with someone who had done this trick.
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Old 12-05-2014, 09:00   #7
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Re: Repower Westerbeke 4-107 and tranny

Since the transmission has been under water too, should I just plan to replace it, or given the way the unit is made and the fact that changing a tranny could entail a multitude of other changes, should I make every attempt to rebuild the original? I won't know the mfg/model until I get the units out on the dock.
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Old 12-05-2014, 09:25   #8
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Re: Repower Westerbeke 4-107 and tranny

Those ball or roller bearings in the trans will be junk. If you add up all the costs of the parts you probably need inside the trans, a exchange trans would be a bunch cheaper. Personally I would stick with the same model unless a different type had the same dimensions, ie, drive shaft & coupling etc.
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Old 16-05-2014, 01:39   #9
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Re: Repower Westerbeke 4-107 and tranny

Eddie,

Don't write off the tranny until you've checked it out. They are much better sealed than the engine. If it has only oil inside, if may be just fine.

I found three truck transfer cases laying in a old military dump in Kodiak, AK probably 30 years minimum out in the weather. All of them you could turn the shafts by hand and watch the output shafts turn as well. One I was even able to shift (the other two the linkages were too rusty. They're oil filled, have lip seals on the moving parts and usually a bell type breather that is designed to be submerged without letting water in. Marine transmissions are no different.

As long as it wasn't at the bottom of the ocean, just sitting in bilge water may not have been enough to get past the seals.

Worth a look see...
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Old 16-05-2014, 16:04   #10
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Re: Repower Westerbeke 4-107 and tranny

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddiefuego View Post
Greetings,
This site has such a wealth of knowledge...I thank you for participating. Newbies like me would be lost without your words of wisdom. Ok...now the dumb questions. 1) My Westerbeke 4-107 in my 73 Morgan 41 o/I is dead. I've found a perkins 4-108 with low hrs. (lifeboat usage) My boat is NOT easily accessible and is in the water. I do NOT know what the transmission is and since it was under water I believe it is shot too. I believe the tranny was an off set model but I do NOT know for sure. 2) Was there a standard tranny that was married to this Westerbeke engine? I believe them to be originals.
Since the tranny was underwater, and a long ways away...numbers are problematic. Is the only way I can really tell what I have...to pull it out and get a good look? 3) Are the tranny bolt housings the same or will I run into an adapter plate issue as soon as I get them together? along with shaft lengths/prop sizes/through hulls/carrier bearing??
I know some will recommend a new engine, but due to the old girls condition and location and my budget, I think this is the best option. But...I'm open to all thoughts. Thanks much.
Well Westerbeke didn't call their engine a 4-107. They number them Westerbeke 40, Westerbeke 236, etc., so you need the correct engine ID. It could very well be a Westerbeke 40. The 4-107 is the Perkins engine block that Westerbeke modified for marine use. I don't think the engines came with one standard transmission. My Valiant 40 has a Westerbeke 40 with a Paragon hydraulic transmission. I think you will have to get someone to look at the trany to figure out what model it is. A used 4-108 should work for you as a lot of the existing parts like exhaust manifold should bolt on. Good luck.
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Old 27-05-2014, 21:09   #11
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Re: Repower Westerbeke 4-107 and tranny

Westerbeke 40 is what the manuals say. I'm going back in with a Perkins 4-108. Tranny is still unknown. I've got to get the old one out before I can I.D. the new one...then hopefully find a new tranny that will bolt on to the Perkins without major headaches and expenses.
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