Repower questions.....aggghhhh

[Alan Wheeler]

if you even have choices

Of which you will most likely not have. There is more than just the foot print. If that was all, then the installation costs would be no where near as high as they tend to run into. Additional issues are, the exhaust outlet positions, the inlet positions of all equipment from air through to water. The electrical. Then there is the gear box down angle. The ratio, the point at which max power and torque is developed, thus prop may need changing and the list goes on.

[Windgeist]

Not to stray off thread topic to much, but what about these? I originally saw it in Cruising World mag. It caught my interest because we have a TDI VW Golf and love it.

Volkswagen Marine >*Engines*<

https://www.frenchmarine.com/Product...PID=590&CID=18

[Boracay]

The first step in installing a new engine is to accurately measure the existing setup and then to draw a series of diagrams showing the existing installation.

Key measurements include :-

1) The horizontal and vertical distance of the engine bearers from the centreline of the propeller shaft.
2) The maximum height available for the engine.
3) Location and size of the exhaust
4) Location of engine feet and mounts
5) and so on

This could take several weeks.

Once this is done most engine and gearbox manufacturers supply various levels of installation detail for their equipment. John Deere supplied me with comprehensively dimensioned installation plans for their 4045 and the ZF63. The only bit that I did not pick up was their use of a 100mm exhaust hose.

It is necessary to check if the engine will fit into the boat. I had to have the alternator swung in and the heat exchanger removed to get the engine through the companionway hatch.

It may be important to note that conventions may have changed since the original installation. I found that while all mounts were bolted to the engine on my old Ford the rear mounts for John Deere 4045/ZF63 are now bolted onto the gearbox and are not level with the engine mounts.

I found that spending a considerable amount of time analysing and checking (I even made a jig to check the engine would fit through the companionway hatch) paid off in way lower stress levels when doing the actual work, which turned out to be mostly straight forward.

After careful measurement, analysis and checking the engine installation was on the same level of difficulty as those rather complex Lego kits. And you can always get more bits if you loose one.

[richard_kilburn]

Just thought I'd give you an update as to the progress with the re-power. I finally made the decision to go with the Yanmar 55hp 4jh4e for various reasons. It's non-turbo and therefore has less to go wrong, and also I heard some negative comments about the volvo option with regards to EVC issues and parts availability. I guess the most crucial reason was the hoards of cruisers that all advised me the Yanmar was the better option. Given I'll be selling the boat sometime in the future, I thought that made good sense.

I worked out the 4jh4e is a great fit for a 4-108 replacement given it's smaller in almost all dimensions and can be bought with several gearbox options which means you have a number of options for mounting. We are also a little nose heavy (110m of chain and 2 x anchors don't help) and the new engine will be lower and further aft which should help the balance of the boat no end.

The removal of the 4.108 was pretty easy. I managed to hang a block from the bolts underneath my binnacle (we are a V42 centre cockpit Tayana) and then swing the engine back and out into the saloon. I then removed most of the parts (heat exchanger / flywheel / starter / alternator / brackets etc) and the engine was lifted out on a travelift quite easily.

I sold the old engine on Trade-me to a guy who is fitting it into an old (almost 100 year old) launch in the South Island. He got a great deal on the engine, and I'm sure it will serve him well for years to come.

I then spent 2 weeks cleaning and painting my bilge, which now looks like a million dollars compared to the oily mess I had with the perkins. I have also taken the opportunity to replace a number of hoses and wires that are hard to reach with the engine in situ.

Yanpower (brand new Yanmar dealership in Auckland - very helpful) then built me a pattern for the new engine which we put into the engine room and adjusted until we got it in the perfect spot. My shaft has a down angle of about 12 degrees which meant the old perkins with a straight gearbox had the same angle. I have opted for the Yanmar with a 7 degree down angle which means the new engine will sit at about 5 degrees. I have also ordered a new engine driven pump for a watermaker which arrives today. I will work with Yanpower to build a bracket to hold the pump lster this week, so we can install the engine with the bracket already built.

One problem I have currently is the 3 inch exhaust requirements for the 4jh4e mean my waterlock has to be far larger than the old one. I'm therefore looking at custom fabricating a water lock which will fit the lines of the bilge in order to get the correct drop from the mixing elbow to the water level inside the lock. I'm pretty sure we have worked this one out now, but there was more than a little head scratching during the engine bed calculations. Other than that - I will have to run larger diameter hose from the engine room back, but that just means opening up the existing holes a little, I don't see many problems there.

Alternators are still a question and I'm not sure which way I will go. Upgrading the 60 to an 80amp on the engine is a no brainer at 120nzd, but I will need something larger and more Marine (ie deep cycle / higher output for longer) rated. I'm looking at adding a second high output alternator to the engine with the yanmar bracket, or simply replacing the 80amp with a high output and only having one. It all depends on how much room I have when the engine is in place. Yanmar have been great and are working with me in offering the bracket as an after purchase option, I believe you normally have to specify upfront whether you want the 2nd alternator bracket or not.

Anyhow - that's probably enough for now. Happy to answer any questions if anyone is looking at doing the same thing...

Cheers
Richard

[gavinandrebecca]

Please let me know how it goes as i wish to do the same with a slocum 43,IF I decide to buy it.
Problem is the old 4-108 is in the blilge below cabin floor and just fits underneath at present.So have to know if the yanmar will sit higher, hence fit,as i Know the gear boxes are offset,downwards from the yanmar engine whilst the perkins/warner are straight through.
Any way if you know these measurements be well pleased to know, and if the mounts align too.
Good luck with it.
The magic measurement is between prop shaft to top of engine
Gavin

[never monday]

Gavin,
Take two measurements and post up please. Your boat sounds similar to the 80's Cheoy Lees.
I need from shaft center line to the engine beds and engine beds up to the lowest part of the sole over the engine. Also, what does the boat weigh?

[richard_kilburn]

Originally Posted by gavinandrebecca

Please let me know how it goes as i wish to do the same with a slocum 43,IF I decide to buy it.
Problem is the old 4-108 is in the blilge below cabin floor and just fits underneath at present.So have to know if the yanmar will sit higher, hence fit,as i Know the gear boxes are offset,downwards from the yanmar engine whilst the perkins/warner are straight through.
Any way if you know these measurements be well pleased to know, and if the mounts align too.
Good luck with it.
The magic measurement is between prop shaft to top of engine
Gavin

Hi Gavin

The Yanmar is significantly lower in engine height than the Perkins, you can get all the engine dimensions from the Yanmar site. Also - you can get the Yanmars with several gearbox options with both down angled and straight gearboxes. I chose the down angled box because it means I can sit the engine at 3-4 degrees rather than 12 degrees which is better for the engine.

As for the engine beds, with the change in gearbox it meant building new engine bearers which is just something you have to do. It has meant that I can now mount the engine lower and more aft than the perkins which will help address a slight nose heavy tilt since I upgraded the anchor and anchor chain and give us a slightly lower centre of gravity which is always good.

Happy to have a chat or correspond via email if you want to know more.

Richard

[gavinandrebecca]

Thanks richard,
I hope i am not slowing your instal.
I am aware of the yanmar site.
I failed to state that i am in australia, and the yacht I am considering is in Caribbean. We leave for there on the 9th Jan.
SO i cannot find any drawings or the 4-108. Have got the whole manual for the perkins, which has photos, but no dimensions. I have read that the 2 motors are the same size 'envelope', but the prop shaft is an un-movable point so the location will be dependent on that.
I guess since you have sold the old motor you cannot measure it.
Best of luck, and get back to work!!
I will ask the broker to measure the slocum.
And yes it is like the cheoy, tiawan built
Still let us know the end result, warts and all

[richard_kilburn]

Gavin

There are lots of people on this forum with 4-108's who would be more than happy to measure the dimensions. However, you need to make sure you know the exact model of Perkins. Mine was the "new" 4.108 but there was a high line and low line version which were both different dimensions. If you look in your manual you will see the photo's of the different versions - then you can ask on this forum to get the dimensions of your specific version.

All the best
Richard