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Old 18-05-2011, 21:51   #1
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Rebuilt Engine vs New

Hi-
Trying to get a hold of the repower plan and need help:
What do you get in a brand new engine that you can't get in a rebuilt or remanufactured one?

Thanks,
John
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Old 18-05-2011, 22:56   #2
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Re: rebuilt vs new

The warranty on a new engine will be better. If you are looking at a diesel engine, it would depend greatly on if you are rebuilding an engine that you have operated and know it's maintenance history and how much wear was put on it before deciding to rebuild, or you are buying a re-built engine whose history you have no knowledge of. How good is the shop doing the work? What is the price spread? New does not translate to infallible, usually you have better odds.
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Old 19-05-2011, 00:41   #3
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Re: rebuilt vs new

The problem with rebuilt engines is human error. If you fit a brand new engine from the factory it is reasonable to assume that you will get the same life expectancy as a new engine. A rebuilt engine usually has some components that were judged to be serviceable and to be helpful the mechanic will often refer that back to you to ask what you require. A mechanics warranty will usually only cover the work that he did do and it seldom covers the work that he didn't do. So if a part judged servicable fails, then it can become an argument about what did you actually instruct him to do. A mechanic is not as reliable as a production line robot and so there are likely to be more issues. I buy new and not rebuilt.

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Old 19-05-2011, 04:26   #4
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Re: rebuilt vs new

I vote rebuilt engine. BUT you need a list of what this really means and what parts were replaced etc. In the past I cheched into boats listed as having engine rebuilt to find out all that met was that the head had been done.
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Old 19-05-2011, 06:44   #5
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Re: Rebuilt Engine vs New

New engine = Lot's of money

Rebuilt engine = Less money, everything hooks back up, tranny, fuel system, cooling, etc.

Rebuilt DIY = LESS money again, will know your engine system completely, not hard to do if you can read and are a little mechanically inclined
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Old 19-05-2011, 07:24   #6
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Re: Rebuilt Engine vs New

Rebuilt engines avoid the cost of a warrantee that is largely useless to a cruiser wandering the seas.
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Old 19-05-2011, 07:48   #7
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Re: Rebuilt Engine vs New

on new vs rebuilt....

If desired engine features are important to you, rebuilt may make more sense.

It is getting harder to find NEW engines with features (or lack of) of the OLDER engines. By that I mean, as an example, most manufacturers, due to emission requirements, no longer make low revving naturally aspirated diesel engines (features some cruisers find desireable).

New engines quite often they have turbos, intercoolers, etc. More stuff to maintain and fix when it breaks.

Re-rebuilding and fixing an older engine will often be cheaper than doing the same on a newer engine (when it comes time).
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Old 19-05-2011, 07:58   #8
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Re: Rebuilt Engine vs New

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unicorn Dreams View Post

Rebuilt DIY = LESS money again, will know your engine system completely, not hard to do if you can read and are a little mechanically inclined
Second this motion. If you rebuild your engine, you will really know what makes it tick. Small diesels are not very heavy to handle, can be completely resleeved and essentially made new depending on how many parts really need replacing. You can replace things that a rebuilder might skip and KNOW it has been done right. It will also require buying the tools you should have on board. There really is no rocket science in rebuilding a small diesel.
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Old 19-05-2011, 07:59   #9
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Re: Rebuilt Engine vs New

around my neck of the woods the yanmar mechanic is hesistant to rebuild and would rather install new. the consensus is it will almost cost as much to rebuild and you will still have an old motor. sadly this can be true if they charge enough for their labor and god knows it is expensive. my 3GM has 1400 hours on it .. why wouldn't i maintain and rebuild it?
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Old 19-05-2011, 07:59   #10
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Re: Rebuilt Engine vs New

fully agree with Westsail's comments about minimising complexity. Unfortunately there are not many new engines left which fulfil the requirements of clean air, clean fuel and oil in the sump to keep it running. My newish (in 2005) Yanmar 4JH4 was one of those, however with that model's latest update it now has an electric lift pump.
The key point to consider with a repower is parts availability now and in the future. If it is something like a perkins 4.108 then no problem, but on the other hand there are alot of older motors around now that are hard to source parts, so in the future can only get worse.
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Old 19-05-2011, 08:23   #11
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Re: Rebuilt Engine vs New

We just finished repowering our boat, and documented the process in the the blog below. We did all the work ourselves, but the process will be similar if you pay to have it done. Unless you replace the old engine with an identical new engine, there will be a lot of peripheral work involved, so, although a rebuild may cost as much as a new engine, it will probably be less expensive than the cost of a new engine plus the cost of installation.

Our replacement was driven by the lack for parts availability for the proprietary transmission on our old Volvo. The 32 year old engine with 5000 hours on it was still in good shape, but the difference in performance between it and the new Yanmar with roughly the same horsepower is dramatic, not to mention how smoothly and quietly the Yanmar runs.

A rebuild, well done, will almost certainly be less expensive, and may be the way to go if you're happy with the engine you have, but there have been some advances in the technology of small diesels in recent years.
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Old 19-05-2011, 08:35   #12
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pirate Re: Rebuilt Engine vs New

I miss the crank handles that were on the old Volvo's, Ruggerini's etc... so nice when your batteries had died below the nessecary 'OOMPHH'
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Old 19-05-2011, 10:09   #13
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Re: Rebuilt Engine vs New

I have gone through this process and have written extensively on my decisions in my boat refitting blog (see www.alchemy2009.blogspot.com). When I found out that to rebuild my 22 year old, underused (1,300 hours and 22 winterizations) Westerbeke W-52 would cost me approximately $13,000, and that a brand new Beta Marine 60 with two power take-offs, a hydraulic shifter and about 100 pounds less weight (plus eight more HPs) would cost only $1,500 more, my choice was clear.

This is because we are planning world voyaging. The new engine is easier on diesel, cleaner and quieter than the old block. Spares are identical to Kubota industrial diesels and are a fraction of the price of Westerbeke spares, despite the fact that the W-52 model is essentially a Mazda R2 light pickup diesel as found in B2200s and Ford Rangers in the '80 and early '90s with a heat exchanger and seawater pump bolted on.

By contrast, I rebuilt two Atomic 4 gas auxiliaries for my smaller boat (the first one I swapped out as a drop-in or a "sale item"). The one in there now is a 1973 model rebuilt in 2005 and it starts every season like clockwork. I've put in a few modifications and am very happy with it, but then it's strictly for daysailing and weekend mucking about, and if I put on 20-30 hours a season, I am surprised. So I fully accept the rationale of "know your engine through rebuilding", but the economics and the peace of mind of buying for an entirely more comprehensive, live-aboard experience determined buying new for one boat, while opting for a cheap ($1,200) rebuild for the other, "fun" sailboat.

I too preferred the idea of a diesel you could start with a few line wraps and a crash gybe, or via a crank (my Atomic 4 can be cranked into life, interestingly), but the complexity of the flywheel end in terms of PTOs, belts, cams, pumps and related geegaws precludes this these days.
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Old 19-05-2011, 10:39   #14
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Re: Rebuilt Engine vs New

Alchemy - what about installation costs...and e.g. new bed, lines, filters and what knots? How did you handle that?
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Old 19-05-2011, 11:14   #15
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Re: Rebuilt Engine vs New

I haven't installed the new engine yet,because I have tanks to move, remove and rehab. There's plenty of work to do, but as it's a 2 x 4 foot hole in the floor of the pilothouse, I get to lower and raise the engine until I get it right...no guessing!

I have chosen to make the oil filter "remote", and that was a hundred bucks. The rest will have to wait, but apart from welding in a fabricated thrust bearing for the AquaDrive universal joint coupler, I will be doing this work myself and will keep track of the installation on my blog.
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