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Old 28-10-2008, 23:17   #1
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Rebuilding Sherwood G65 for Perkins 4-108

I finally got the water pump">raw water pump free of the engine, and now have removed the shaft and bearings. I have two problems. (I have not been able to find any exploded drawings of this pump, nor any instructions specific to this. All from Sherwood are for somewhat similar, but not exact).

1) One of the 2 bearings is frozen and appears to be rusted. How can I get it off the shaft?

I have posted two pictures:



2) I think I may have to remove another part from the pump housing. Along with the shaft a small rubber ring came out with a spring collar. It can be seen with the shaft in the first picture, and here is a close up:


Looking into the housing I see a center ring that looks mounted:


Here is the housing with a part from the repair kit:


And with the ring that came out.


It looks like perhaps the rubber/spring ring may have been attached to the ring still in the housing? I wonder if it should be knocked out as then I think the new part would fit in there.

Anyone ever done this? Or know where there are specific diagrams or instructions? (Specific)
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Old 29-10-2008, 02:18   #2
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Use a “bearing puller” to free a frozen bearing:
https://www.acklandsgrainger.com/ima...talog/0133.pdf
https://www.acklandsgrainger.com/ima...talog/0134.pdf

From Sherwood Pump: Sherwood Pumps Marine Distribution - G65 - Related Products

G65
Engine Model: 40-108 Diesel
Engine Part Number: NA003335
Pump Availability: Active
Sherwood Replacement Pump: N/A
Impeller Kit: 09959K
Minor Repair Kit:
Major Repair Kit: 12221
Inlet Port: 3/4" NPT
Outlet Port: 3/4" NPT

See also:

Sherwood's Online Customer Service:
Sherwood Pumps Marine Distribution - Contact Us - Summary

E-mail: sherwood@hypropumps.com.

Technical Tips:

Sherwood Pumps Marine Distribution - Technical Tips - Summary
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Old 29-10-2008, 04:49   #3
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I believe I have the same pump in our Westerbeke. Don't forget the paper seal under the cover or it will leak sure as anything. The impeller kit usually has the seal included. Chart paper works if you get in a pinch or a Manila envelope can be cut out. A little grease helps to make it lay flat while you assemble it. There are rebuild kits and it is worth a try.

Gord's tech tips link should wind up eventually (who could doubt it) with the exploded view based on model series. Some of the shapes vary with a group but the parts view should be similar.
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Old 29-10-2008, 06:03   #4
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From Sherwood’s References page at:
Sherwood Pumps Marine Distribution - References - References

Assembly & disassembly procedures for all G Series pumps
http://www.sherwoodpumpsdistribution...09959_TECH.pdf

Repair & Maintenance Manual:
http://www.sherwoodpumpsdistribution...22_ENGLISH.pdf
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Old 29-10-2008, 13:35   #5
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Trekka;
I just finished rebuilding my G65 pump from my 4-108. I used an arbor press to remove the shaft/bearing assy from the housing and then pressed off the bearings. The inner one shattered and I had to use a Dremmel tool to remove the inner race. Be very carefull of the shaft if you have to do this.
The seal that you are trying to remove has split and the outer housing is still in the hole. Press it out from the other side. Be carefull again when pressing the new one in. They are very lightly made.
I have purchased a new pump from Fore and Aft Marine for $319 and no exchange, so I rebuilt my old one for $85 as a spare.
I have also bought a speed seal cover for it that uses an O-ring instead of paper gasket.
Good luck.
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Old 29-10-2008, 13:40   #6
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Gord,

Thanks for the info on bearing pullers. That is what I need. I think I can borrow or rent one.

I already have the info from the Sherwood site, but as I mentioned it is not specific to the G65 and the exploded drawing is for a pump that is quite different. The parts, number of parts, and sequence of fit are all different enough to not tell me what I need (at least not as much as I'd like).

I guess I did not mention that I already have the major repair kit from Sherwood. Got that before starting on this task.

What I am really wondering about is whether that ring in the center of the pump should come out. I think it is to be replaced by the part I show in the picture, but I'm not sure. And I don't want to forcibly remove the part until I know.

Paul,

My pump has the speedseal cover so no paper gasket, though one came in the repair kit. I just ordered the pump mounting gasket from TA Diesel. (Odd that the major repair kit does not have that gasket although you cannot do the work w/o removing the pump from the engine.)
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Old 29-10-2008, 13:46   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lbisgrove View Post
The seal that you are trying to remove has split and the outer housing is still in the hole. Press it out from the other side. Be carefull again when pressing the new one in. They are very lightly made.
Thank you very much! That is what I needed to know. I will remove that part of the old ring. Any advice on how to get the new one in?

When I removed the shaft I held the case under very hot running water for a few minutes (using tongs). It made the shaft come out with less effort. Used a rubber mallet on a small block of wood to push it out.

I kind of wished I had just got a new pump, but I did not expect the process to take this long. (After 25 yrs of owning sailboats I guess I should have). When I looked last month prices ranged from the low 300's like yours, up to $480 from Depco and West Marine was the absolute highest at $529! The repair kit was about $80, so it seemed at the time....
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Old 29-10-2008, 14:06   #8
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For reassembling the parts into the housing, put the two bearing and the shaft into the freezer for a couple of hours They will shrink down several thousants and be easier to press in. Do the two bearings first then press the shaft in after the bearings have warmed up. A little grease will help too.
When pressing the seal in, use a large round peice of steel the size of the OD of the seal hounsing. I have used a large socket to do this too. Make sure that it goes in straight. Just go slow when pressing anything in, especially the shaft.
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Old 29-10-2008, 23:30   #9
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Put the shaft in the freezer....leave the bearing out.

You want the shaft to shrink.

I have done quite a few of these.....but I have used a brass drift made from an old shaft to drive the steel shaft out.

You can install bearings with a socket of the right size as lond as you start the bearing "square" on the shaft and not cocked
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Old 30-10-2008, 12:07   #10
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Ok... just want to be sure I understand here.

Put the bearings into the pump housing before the shaft?


or

Put the bearings on the shaft, then put them into the housing?

and

I am presuming, before doing either of the above, that I put the new seal into the housing (after removing what is left of the old seal)?

also

What type of grease should I use, sparingly?
I have three possibilities at hand:
  • Lithium
  • Teflon
  • Trailer Wheel Bearing Grease (I use it for seacocks)
Thanks for your comments. Very much appreciated.
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Old 30-10-2008, 17:01   #11
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To reassemble

After the shaft is sufficiently cold,
you can drive the bearings on.
You should be able to see a small wear area on the shaft where the bearings sat.

You do this before you put it in the pump.

When you put the seal in, make sure you install the new seal in the same direction that the old seal was in. This is important because if you put it in the wrang way it will leak.

To install the seal, find a deep socket that is the same OD as the new seal. A LIGHT TAPPING will install it. If it "cocks", stop and start over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekka View Post
Ok... just want to be sure I understand here.

Put the bearings into the pump housing before the shaft?

or

Put the bearings on the shaft, then put them into the housing?

and

I am presuming, before doing either of the above, that I put the new seal into the housing (after removing what is left of the old seal)?

also

What type of grease should I use, sparingly?
I have three possibilities at hand:
  • Lithium
  • Teflon
  • Trailer Wheel Bearing Grease (I use it for seacocks)
Thanks for your comments. Very much appreciated.
Keep us posted.
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Old 01-11-2008, 01:42   #12
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Ok I got the remains of the old seal out of the pump body. Found a socket that just fit and knocked it out with a few quick hammer strokes. Cleaned up the seat as it had lots of rust from the corroded bearing that had leached behind it.

Now, as for the shaft and bearings.... The frozen, rusted bearing does not want to budge. The bearing puller I tried did not budge it. I'm swapping it for a heavier duty one tomorrow. I also tried putting a socket over the end of the shaft, which rested nicely on the bearing, and used a hammer. After 6 blows the concrete floor was chipping but the frozen bearing had not moved a bit down the shaft. FWIW the upper bearing spins freely. It's just the lower one that is frozen.

I'm beginning to think I may have to just take a bite and buy a new shaft. Before Monday comes and I give in to that... any suggestions for other techniques? (As you can see in the pix the lower bearing was rusted to a solid inside and is effectively glued to the shaft.)
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Old 01-11-2008, 06:53   #13
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Have you tried a good application of liquid wrench or Kroil penetrant overnight?
If that doesnt work. since the bearings are no good anymore, you can cut off the outer ring with a grinder or torch. Remove the ball bearing cage, leaving only the tight inner ring on the shaft. Then heat up the remaining ring on the shaft with a torch (don't get the shaft too hot) and you should be able to knock or press it off. if not soak it in penetrating oil overnight and repeat. If still no luck bring it to a
Shop with a press they will probably do it in a jiffy for a minimal charge.
Good luck
Steve
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Old 01-11-2008, 11:51   #14
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I'm heading down to the boat tomorrow and have some PB Blaster there. I'll bring it back and give the shaft a soaking.
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Old 01-11-2008, 17:37   #15
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After all this effort, you might just want to contact Depco for repair parts.

They are excellent on delivery, have a great easy to read catalog. Depco Pump Company
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