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Old 04-09-2015, 14:24   #16
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Re: Raw water pump failure on Westerbeke 70

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Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but can't raw water leakage also be caused by simple wear on the cover plate? Often they have paper gaskets which aren't very good, which is why Maine Sail recommends adding some sealant. If my understanding is correct, wear b'twn. the impeller & the inside of the cover plate can lead to a poor seal. The 'Speedseal' product largely remedies this, assuming there's one to fit your particular pump that is. I carry one or two spare cover plates & gaskets onboard.
That's theoretically possible but in my experience it is almost always the shaft seals. By the time you notice the leak, the bearings have been exposed to a lot of salt water and will also fail eventually. Once the bearings fail the engine will be unusable until the pump is rebuilt or replaced. I like the idea of replacing the whole pump and keeping the rebuilt original as a spare. These pumps tend to have high failure rates compared to everything else and are difficult to find in the boondocks.
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Old 04-09-2015, 17:21   #17
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Re: Raw water pump failure on Westerbeke 70

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That's theoretically possible but in my experience it is almost always the shaft seals. By the time you notice the leak, the bearings have been exposed to a lot of salt water and will also fail eventually. Once the bearings fail the engine will be unusable until the pump is rebuilt or replaced. I like the idea of replacing the whole pump and keeping the rebuilt original as a spare. These pumps tend to have high failure rates compared to everything else and are difficult to find in the boondocks.
Thanks for that. Maybe wishful thinking on my part given that the leaky R/W pump on my Westerbeke 82B was new in 2010 and only has about 350 hrs. on it. If you're right, then maybe it was all the down time that killed it.
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Old 04-09-2015, 18:15   #18
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Re: Raw water pump failure on Westerbeke 70

I think some of the respondents have got things mixed up a bit. If the water is coming from the weep hole, it means that the seal between the impeller chamber and the weep hole is failing. The bearings are on the other side of the weep hole and are protected by a second lip seal. The purpose of the weep hole is not just to notify you that the seal is failing, but to insure that no water under pressure from the pump comes into contact with the inner seal. I have replaced leaking water seals in Johnson/Jabsco pumps many times where the bearings were totally unaffected by any water intrusion.

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Old 04-09-2015, 18:40   #19
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Re: Raw water pump failure on Westerbeke 70

Some pumps are made that way so that might confuse things. The pump on our Perkins is; impeller, water seal, bearing, weep hole, oil seal, bearing in oil and gear.
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Old 04-09-2015, 18:40   #20
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Re: Raw water pump failure on Westerbeke 70

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I think some of the respondents have got things mixed up a bit. If the water is coming from the weep hole, it means that the seal between the impeller chamber and the weep hole is failing. The bearings are on the other side of the weep hole and are protected by a second lip seal. The purpose of the weep hole is not just to notify you that the seal is failing, but to insure that no water under pressure from the pump comes into contact with the inner seal. I have replaced leaking water seals in Johnson/Jabsco pumps many times where the bearings were totally unaffected by any water intrusion.

Jim
I'm pretty sure I understand this Jim, especially after reading Maine Sail's excellent step-by-step with pics. But thanks for the helpful explanation which helps to clarify further. In my case, I'm pretty sure the r/w is making it out past the cover plate and not the weep hole, but I'll double-check now that you've mentioned it.

Btw, MS suggests that if you're going through the trouble of removing the shaft you might as well also replace the bearings along with the seals. Do you agree, or you have been able to get along OK just replacing seals? The rebuild kit shown in MS's tutorial includes all new components except the pump body.
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Old 04-09-2015, 19:16   #21
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Re: Raw water pump failure on Westerbeke 70

g'Day Exile,

Re leaking from the cover plate: certainly can happen, but not from wear due to the impeller. The thin paper gasket often used can certainly develop leaks, but the wear area is not in the gasket area. When worn, the usual symptom is difficulty in getting started pumping when the engine has been sitting a while... fails to generate adequate suction to get the water up from the inlet (if the pump is above the waterline).

As to replacing the bearings, well if you can source them from a bearing supply place at reasonable prices, I suppose preemptive replacement might make sense. However, on our current engine the bearings have outlasted several seals (3500+ hour total).

I have not looked at Maine Sails offerings, so can't comment there, but he is a pro and generally has excellent advice. However, he looks at the rebuild process as a pro, where longterm customer satisfaction is a big deal, and saving a few bucks on parts isn't. For me, the "it ain't broke yet" mantra is difficult to ignore at times. I wouldn't go against his advice, though, if you have any doubts!

While I haven't done it myself, I think the advice to carry a complete spare pump is a good idea... much quicker to replace than to rebuild!

Good luck with your project...

Jim
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Old 04-09-2015, 19:18   #22
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Re: Raw water pump failure on Westerbeke 70

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Some pumps are made that way so that might confuse things. The pump on our Perkins is; impeller, water seal, bearing, weep hole, oil seal, bearing in oil and gear.
Interesting! What make of pump is that?

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Old 04-09-2015, 19:22   #23
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Re: Raw water pump failure on Westerbeke 70

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Interesting! What make of pump is that?

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Old 04-09-2015, 19:30   #24
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Re: Raw water pump failure on Westerbeke 70

Weeping from cover plate, yes, I have had that.

IME, bearings last a for 1000's of hours not hundreds; however get seawater into them and YMMV.

If you can feel slop in the bearings, it is time to replace them.
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Old 04-09-2015, 19:35   #25
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Re: Raw water pump failure on Westerbeke 70

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Discontinued Sherwood.
Again, interesting! From many posts here on CF and elsewhere, Sherwood pumps seem to be of poor design and poor quality... but i have no personal experience to verify that. However, placing a bearing in such a vulnerable place seems poor practice to this observer.

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Old 04-09-2015, 19:36   #26
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Re: Raw water pump failure on Westerbeke 70

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Weeping from cover plate, yes, I have had that.

IME, bearings last a for 1000's of hours not hundreds; however get seawater into them and YMMV.

If you can feel slop in the bearings, it is time to replace them.
Agreed entirely, Geoff!

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Old 04-09-2015, 19:45   #27
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Re: Raw water pump failure on Westerbeke 70

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From many posts here on CF and elsewhere, Sherwood pumps seem to be of poor design and poor quality... but i have no personal experience to verify that.
Jim,

You're right. Here's why for those that may see this thread:

Why SHERWOOD Raw Water Pumps leave a LOT to be desired: CNG & Sherwood Pump Dissection Thanks to Ken for that one, I'm tired of repeating it. - Stu 5/25/2015
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Old 04-09-2015, 19:48   #28
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Re: Raw water pump failure on Westerbeke 70

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Jim,

You're right. Here's why for those that may see this thread:

Why SHERWOOD Raw Water Pumps leave a LOT to be desired: CNG & Sherwood Pump Dissection Thanks to Ken for that one, I'm tired of repeating it. - Stu 5/25/2015
Any idea what it says in this link? Can't open it here; presumably one has to be a member or some such?
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Old 25-09-2015, 06:59   #29
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Re: Raw water pump failure on Westerbeke 70

Update:
Wayne, thanks for the referral to Depco. They sell the same pump new for $600 plus instead of $900 plus! Also will rebuild a pump for flat $47. They will inspect the old pump and advise: rebuild or new. Guess the pump is going to Depco.
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Old 25-09-2015, 07:17   #30
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Re: Raw water pump failure on Westerbeke 70

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Update:
Wayne, thanks for the referral to Depco. They sell the same pump new for $600 plus instead of $900 plus! Also will rebuild a pump for flat $47. They will inspect the old pump and advise: rebuild or new. Guess the pump is going to Depco.
===

Glad to hear that Depco is working out well for you. They've been around for a long time and I've always heard good reports. In all fairness it was actually Stu Jackson who made the post recommending them. I certainly second the motion however.
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