Raw water pump

[osprey877]

Anybody recognize the attached water pump">raw water pump, circa 1980?? There are no markings on it, but it takes a standard Johnson pump impeller. The weep hole has started dripping excessively but I don't want to rebuild the pump without knowing for sure that it takes standard seals and bearings. Also, it is a fixed mount on the engine block so any replacement pump would have to have the same bolt pattern/spacing and shaft offset. Are these standard or is every pump different? Difficult to tell from photos in catalogues. Thanks.

[belizesailor]

Dont recognize the pump specifically, but the impeller cavity and plate bolt pattern look very much like a Johnson.

If leaking from the weep hole then its mostly likely just the raw water side seal needs replacing...assuming shaft is not scored. Easy job, standard seals almost certainly. Pull the seal, get out your calipers, and make a visit to a local seal supplier. Dimension numbers may still be visible on face of original seal so try not to muck it up top bad when pulling.

Unless the body proves to be badly worn then I would rebuild it (easy & cheap with off the shelf seals & bearings (if needed)). Shaft can be sleeved if scored. Then, I would search for a spare pump (I carry a spare which I just swap in when seals start to leak and then rebuild at my liesure).

[Wotname]

^^ what belizesailor said +1.

The bearings and seals will almost certainly be standard and available. I have rebuilt a variety of similar looking pumps from the 70s and 80s (ex Arona, Bukh, Yanmar etc) and all have standard off the shelf bearings.

[Dusty Mac]

From my experience with Farymann water pumps, if there is any scoring/wear on the shaft, have that machined too or you will be revisiting the seals again all too soon.

[barnakiel]

Looks identical with our Johnson. They used to be marked on the outer plate. Perhaps your markings are hiding under some layers of paint?

Scratch some ...

Cheers,
b.

[NoTies]

If replacing with a standard lip seal rather than the actual pump manufacturer's par then swap the boot spring for the old to the new seal or use an appropriate sized "O" ring. Standard seal boot springs are plated mild steel and will not last long.

[osprey877]

Thanks. Is the seal just a press fit? There seems to be a metal ring around the edge oF the seal. Is that part of the seal or is it some kind of retaining ring that needs to be removed?

[NoTies]

Hard to say. Is it a lip seal or rotating face seal? Lip seals have a metal ring around the OD but this is often encapsulated in rubber.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by osprey877

Thanks. Is the seal just a press fit? There seems to be a metal ring around the edge oF the seal. Is that part of the seal or is it some kind of retaining ring that needs to be removed?

Usually.

There will be (most likely) a internal circlip in the body of the pump near the pulley end that needs to be removed to allow the bearings and shaft to be removed. Then the seal can be pushed out.

Of course, yours may be different but it wouldn't be difficult.

[Wotname]

Usual disassembly is to remove the impeller, remove the pulley, remove the circlip, push (drive) shaft out (along with the bearings) towards the pulley side and then push out the lip seal (again towards the pulley side). There will be a water slinger or small disc or even sometimes an o ring between the lip seal and the bearings. This is designed to throw off any water takes gets passed the seal and thus prevent it getting to the bearings. This thrown off water should make it's way out of the weep hole in the body.

The bearings may or may not have some cover.

Assembly is the reverse

[osprey877]

i

Originally Posted by Wotname

Usual disassembly is to remove the impeller, remove the pulley, remove the circlip, push (drive) shaft out (along with the bearings) towards the pulley side and then push out the lip seal (again towards the pulley side). There will be a water slinger or small disc or even sometimes an o ring between the lip seal and the bearings. This is designed to throw off any water takes gets passed the seal and thus prevent it getting to the bearings. This thrown off water should make it's way out of the weep hole in the body.

The bearings may or may not have some cover.

Assembly is the reverse

Thanks. I am having trouble sourcing a replacement seal and am reluctant to take it apart without having the new seal in hand. It works now and although it leaks it is not too bad. Maybe a cup in a couple of hours. Do you think it would help to put a bit of waterproof grease around the base of the impeller and or add a small O ring below the impeller?

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by osprey877

i

Thanks. I am having trouble sourcing a replacement seal and am reluctant to take it apart without having the new seal in hand. It works now and although it leaks it is not too bad. Maybe a cup in a couple of hours. Do you think it would help to put a bit of waterproof grease around the base of the impeller and or add a small O ring below the impeller?

Probably won't help much but it wouldn't do any harm to try.

The seal should be easy to get; normally any good bearing suppliers (or hydraulic suppliers) would stock most common sizes or you can get on-line.

Serious question, what part of the world are you in?

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by osprey877

i

Thanks. I am having trouble sourcing a replacement seal and am reluctant to take it apart without having the new seal in hand. It works now and although it leaks it is not too bad. Maybe a cup in a couple of hours. Do you think it would help to put a bit of waterproof grease around the base of the impeller and or add a small O ring below the impeller?

Im puzzled why you would have trouble sourcing a seal. These are off the shelf items. Anywhere that has a good supplier of seals, or even good autoparts stores, you should be able to find a seal. Where are you?

If you are trying to source them as brand name engine parts then not only will that be harder, but stoopid expensive too. In the end they are selling you off the shelf seals at a high mark up, just go buy the same product direct at a fraction of the cost.

Pop that seal out and take it in to a supplier, you wont have any trouble sourcing it. Buy a handful of them as spares while you are at it, they are cheap.

[Attikos]

When I rebuilt mine, a Johnson, I just pulled the old seal, measured it with a caliper, made a note of the molded ID from the old one, and got a new one from Amazon for less than two dollars. The two ball bearings were ID'd the same way; new ones were under ten bucks for both. I tapped them all into place gently with silicone grease, a suitably sized socket, and a rubber mallet. A slinger was on the shaft on the sheave side, just a standard O-ring. The cover plate seal was also a standard metric O-ring, readily available for less than a dollar each. No more leaking, so far.

[Wotname]

For the OP, if you end up following the good advice unthread and get a "normal" seal, please follow No Ties excellent advice below.
To repeat, remove the carbon steel spring from the standard seal and replace with a similar sized O ring.

Normal seals are designed for oil etc where the carbon spring is fine. A sea water seal will have a SS spring but these are often hard to source. Using a O ring to replace the carbon steel spring works very very well.

Originally Posted by NoTies

If replacing with a standard lip seal rather than the actual pump manufacturer's par then swap the boot spring for the old to the new seal or use an appropriate sized "O" ring. Standard seal boot springs are plated mild steel and will not last long.