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Old 24-05-2015, 12:52   #46
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Re: Ran engine w no oil- is it destroyed?

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Originally Posted by Cadence View Post
I'm with the 50/50 crew. I wouldn't ever worry about the compression. I would worry more about a thrown bearing. You might fill it with oil and try it. If oil pressure doesn't come up shut in down. If it does you may have dodged the bullet. If it don't, don't do more damage to a journal.

I'm with this response....the cylinder bores are the least of your worries. I've had the same thing gapped to a two cylinder Kubota. It ran for several m ore hours following this event, but was never the same, much less power, noises....it should have been rebuilt but the cost benefit ratio on the little old thing didn't pan out.


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Old 24-05-2015, 13:07   #47
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Re: Ran engine w no oil- is it destroyed?

What Wulf said in post 44.

A good way to look at the oil filter: get a white enamel baking pan about 9" by13". Cut the top of the filter off with a filter cutter. Then pull the paper element out and spread it out in the white pan. If you have no idea what is too much take it to an aircraft mechanic that works on small aircraft as they do this on every annual inspection. If no or very little metal found in the filter I would run it for aa while. If it runs ok with no abnormal noise but smokes some I wou plan on replacing the cylinder liners, pistons and rings in the not too distang future. With replaceable cylinder liners that is not a very big job. If you see very much bearing material I would not trust the engine to last very long.
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Old 24-05-2015, 13:24   #48
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Re: Ran engine w no oil- is it destroyed?

if it shut down due to no oil/oil press would think it is toast, however I would go with rebuild...even if you get it started big problems waiting to happen
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Old 24-05-2015, 13:29   #49
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Re: Ran engine w no oil- is it destroyed?

Re filter media inspections. Agree with taking to aircraft mechanic...or any diesel engine shop, tractor shop etc. as all be familiar with what to look for, the good and the bad. Or just take your complete filter to them and have them cut it open. They have the tool and helps you avoid sharp edges on the canister and associated mess if trying to do it yourself without a proper filter cutter.
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Old 24-05-2015, 13:33   #50
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Re: Ran engine w no oil- is it destroyed?

See if it is seized i.e. can't turn the flywheel/crankshaft by HAND!!!! If it turns 90% chance you're fine. If not, it is seized and toast. R
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Old 24-05-2015, 14:20   #51
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Re: Ran engine w no oil- is it destroyed?

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Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy View Post
Good advice here, but be prepared for a rebuild. And, for the love of Neptune, get a bulletproof low oil pressure alarm.
Exactly. Little (maybe >0, but little) hope that you can just keep using it, but the good news is the 408 is a cinch to rebuild, and the parts are cheap. You can easily do it yourself in a couple of weekends. It's really not a big deal. The 408, unlike most modern engines, has basically no life limit. You can resleeve them an unlimited number of times. They are based on an industrial engine designed for continuous duty at full output. As a bonus you can fix your oil leaks (for a while ).
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Old 24-05-2015, 14:44   #52
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Re: Ran engine w no oil- is it destroyed?

I think I would follow Wulf (post 44), and gently see if there is still life left.

If the perkins has 4 or 5 quarts of oil, and the pressure gauge orifice is 1/4" Dia.(?), it might have taken a while to eject all the oil, especially if the oil was cold. Optimistic me

If it came to sudden grinding halt, well... Pessimistic me

In any case, there is nothing to lose by investigating.

Hope all ends well
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Old 24-05-2015, 15:02   #53
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Re: Ran engine w no oil- is it destroyed?

She is siezed up tight Can't rotate the shaft with a breaker bar.

Thanks everyone for your help and excellent advice.

Is there a "how to rebuild a 4-108" thread on here?! Or a rebuild manual specific to the Perkins? I have some pretty complete shop guides, but I need some directed guidance on what to look for and replace.

Fwiw the oil pressure line actually broke at the compression fitting- guess the vibration fatigued it. I installed it about 5 years ago.
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Old 24-05-2015, 15:03   #54
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Re: Ran engine w no oil- is it destroyed?

The exact same thing happened to my boat when a friend was running it, only he ran it for more like 20-30 minutes with no oil pressure. He was 40 miles from home but filled it with oil and it ran fine for the next 20 years. It only recently had a major overhaul and I am now expecting another 20 years. I've run a lot Perkins, can't believe they are that sensitive. Some here who claim it's toast must be the type who change oil in their cars every 3,000 miles just like the oil companies tell them. Who profits for that? Could it be the people who sell oil and service cars?
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Old 24-05-2015, 15:36   #55
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Re: Ran engine w no oil- is it destroyed?

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Originally Posted by jmschmidt View Post
The exact same thing happened to my boat when a friend was running it, only he ran it for more like 20-30 minutes with no oil pressure. He was 40 miles from home but filled it with oil and it ran fine for the next 20 years. It only recently had a major overhaul and I am now expecting another 20 years. I've run a lot Perkins, can't believe they are that sensitive. Some here who claim it's toast must be the type who change oil in their cars every 3,000 miles just like the oil companies tell them. Who profits for that? Could it be the people who sell oil and service cars?

Say what?
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Old 24-05-2015, 15:45   #56
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Re: Ran engine w no oil- is it destroyed?

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Originally Posted by asumpton View Post
She is siezed up tight Can't rotate the shaft with a breaker bar.

Thanks everyone for your help and excellent advice.

Is there a "how to rebuild a 4-108" thread on here?! Or a rebuild manual specific to the Perkins? I have some pretty complete shop guides, but I need some directed guidance on what to look for and replace.

Fwiw the oil pressure line actually broke at the compression fitting- guess the vibration fatigued it. I installed it about 5 years ago.
Sorry!
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Old 24-05-2015, 15:50   #57
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Re: Ran engine w no oil- is it destroyed?

Hey Guy, why so pessimistic, with no oil for cooling the metal expands causing it to seized, cool it down add oil and see if it turns over, if it is scored and compression is low you do what NSBoatman said, change the sleeves, check the bearing connecting rods and valve push rods and have at it. machinery is pretty resilient.
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Old 24-05-2015, 15:55   #58
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Re: Ran engine w no oil- is it destroyed?

Try some Marvel Mystery Oil, let it soak, there are online manuals to rebuild the 4-108.
of course you can drop $12,000 for a new Beta...
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Old 24-05-2015, 15:58   #59
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Re: Ran engine w no oil- is it destroyed?

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Originally Posted by jmschmidt View Post
The exact same thing happened to my boat when a friend was running it, only he ran it for more like 20-30 minutes with no oil pressure. He was 40 miles from home but filled it with oil and it ran fine for the next 20 years. It only recently had a major overhaul and I am now expecting another 20 years. I've run a lot Perkins, can't believe they are that sensitive. Some here who claim it's toast must be the type who change oil in their cars every 3,000 miles just like the oil companies tell them. Who profits for that? Could it be the people who sell oil and service cars?
Oops...
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Old 24-05-2015, 16:00   #60
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Re: Ran engine w no oil- is it destroyed?

Even if it runs again, I would suggest that it would be prudent to pull the engine apart and check the condition of the motor and replace as a minimum rings and head gasket and anything else that shows signs of damage.
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