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Old 24-05-2015, 09:26   #31
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Re: Ran engine w no oil- is it destroyed?

I've worked on engines and nursed damaged engines along for many many miles, put oil in it and check it out, all you are out is the price of the oil, then if it runs, be suspicious of it until you have lots of hours on it without a problem. Time will tell. I've seen lots of seized up engines go for a long time, the worst case scenario I could imagine is a blocked oil passage from melted bearing material on the crankshaft, sure their may be some scoring on the cylinders but it will most likely still have enough compression to run and may clean up with time. A brand new engine may leave you stranded at any point in time. I ran weedwacker powered bike for 2000 miles locally, planned a 1500 mile trip, decided I should install a new motor for the trip, it lasted 200 miles and I had to rebuild it on the road. You never know but it doesn't hurt much to try.

The "from loosing power to quitting" is not the important thing, load and time without oil is. Basically something heated up and had high resistance and stopped the engine. After things have cooled it may be free. It would be possible to remove the injectors and get compression release that way to turn it over without the stress of firing, you could also disable the injector system to have it not fire for a while and just have compression load while turning it over to "break it in" again.
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Old 24-05-2015, 09:29   #32
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Re: Ran engine w no oil- is it destroyed?

If it seized he will have to take it apart and replace bearings and sieves. If it just stopped running for some lucky reason this approach may work. I bet he will not be able to turn it over...therefore big project.
I gave away an old running, oil dumping 108 Perkins a few years ago. Wonder if it's still up in Sidney BC.
I see someone just posted before me that sounds like someone I would take my engine to. Thank goodness some people like this stuff.
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Old 24-05-2015, 09:37   #33
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Re: Ran engine w no oil- is it destroyed?

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Originally Posted by brownoarsman View Post
Is there a compression release on the engine? Haven't seen anyone mention it, but if it is literally dry, after adding oil back, you can turn it over a few times with decompression engaged to recoat everything before subjecting it to compression.
Don't know if this is useful in the present circumstance vs how it's usually used on engines that have sat for a while, but couldn't hurt really.


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Good advice here, but be prepared for a rebuild. And, for the love of Neptune, get a bulletproof low oil pressure alarm.
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Old 24-05-2015, 09:41   #34
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Re: Ran engine w no oil- is it destroyed?

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I bet he will not be able to turn it over...therefore big project
that's what i'm thinking .. easily avoided by having a working oil pressure alarm
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Old 24-05-2015, 09:44   #35
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Re: Ran engine w no oil- is it destroyed?

Why do people continue to run engines with known bad gauges?

Its a simple, inexpensive fix, which can avoid very expensive problems. Ive run across a surprising number of main engines, and gensets, with non functioning gauges/alarms.

Ive had basically the same thing happen to me as the OP. I was hired to skipper sea trail. A short time into the sea trial the starboard engine emitted a big puff of white smoke and I shut it down. Owner informed me of the non-functioning alarms after the event. Given this deferred maintenance issue (as well as the known bad oil fitting that failed), we agreed it was not my responsibility.

Fortunaltely for the owner, the obvious damage was relatively minor...a failed cam shaft bearing that was relatively easy to replace.

Unfortunately for the later buyer (not the one from the sea trial), the engine also had additional not so obvious damage and did not last long.
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Old 24-05-2015, 10:21   #36
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Re: Ran engine w no oil- is it destroyed?

If it does turn over and start ok, slick 50 it asap and you will have a good chance of on going reliability imo.
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Old 24-05-2015, 10:36   #37
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Re: Ran engine w no oil- is it destroyed?

If it stopped on it's own, it's likely severely damaged. Diesel engines don't stop once running very easily.
Even if it starts again, I see no way the bearings aren't damaged.
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Old 24-05-2015, 10:52   #38
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Re: Ran engine w no oil- is it destroyed?

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Thanks for the advice everybody- I'll fill her with oil tomorrow and see if she starts. Fingers crossed!
I would suggest first to remove injectors then fill crankcase and put some oil into the cylinders and crank engine (if it hasn't seized) until you see oil pressure on the gauge. Then install injectors, bleed air and start the engine. If you just put oil in the crank and start you could do much more damage!
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Old 24-05-2015, 11:22   #39
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Re: Ran engine w no oil- is it destroyed?

If it starts tie it very securely to the dock and run, in gear, under load for a few hours. If that works you might have a chance.
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Old 24-05-2015, 11:25   #40
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Re: Ran engine w no oil- is it destroyed?

Then have oil analysed
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Old 24-05-2015, 11:49   #41
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Re: Ran engine w no oil- is it destroyed?

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If it does turn over and start ok, slick 50 it asap and you will have a good chance of on going reliability imo.
If you don't have any Slick 50 I have some snake oil I can sell you.
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Old 24-05-2015, 12:17   #42
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Re: Ran engine w no oil- is it destroyed?

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Then have oil analysed
No need to go to that much trouble, just hack open the oil filter and you will be amazed at how much metal you will find.
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Old 24-05-2015, 12:29   #43
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Re: Ran engine w no oil- is it destroyed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by asumpton View Post
It lost the oil because the pressure tube to the oil gauge came out of its compression fitting.

I'm on the project today, so we will see what happens. Thank you all for your advice!
Good for you. Please let us know the outcome.

As you've noticed here on the forum there can be some very critical comments about any catastrophe. I'm hoping for the best as that's what I'd want for myself if it happened to me.

I used to have a big socket and a breaker bar that fit my old Perkins. I know it was larger than an inch. I could put it on the nut at the crankcase and turn it over. If you want to get some oil in the cylinders first then you might be able to at the glow plugs if your engine has them. I know it doesn't have a compression release.
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Old 24-05-2015, 12:38   #44
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Re: Ran engine w no oil- is it destroyed?

Damage will have been done, how much is pure speculation at this point but likely not a cheerful outcome. As a licences heavy duty mechanic and if this was my boat and the engine turns over manually (ie is not seized) I would:
1) remove and cut open the existing oil filter, squeeze oil out of a section of the paper element, then inspect for magnetic and non- magnetic particles. Some may argue that nothing will be found due to engine running out of oil, however this is a valid first test as some damage may have stRted while oil pressure dropped & some still flowing before completely running out.
2) if no more than a few tiny flecks of material found, refill oil &wins tall a new filter.
3) shut off raw wTer intake and crank the engine about 20-30 seconds at a time with 1 minute cool off for the starter on between, until you have oil pressure.
4) open raw water sea cock
5) start the engine, run at low idle, and observe if any unusual noises, lower than normal oil pressure, smoke etc. **** down immediately for further investigation if unusual noises or low oil pressure
6) if all normal in (5) let the engine idle for 20 or so minutes (still in no load condition).
7) remove and cut open the oil filter per (1) & (2).
8) nothing found.....run under light load at slightly above idle, say about 1000 rpm at the dock for an hour or so.
9) repeat 7, 8
If all ok at this point I'd take it for a run but check filter again @ 25, then 50 hour intervals.
Overkill? Maybe but fters are relatively cheap given potential consequences of subsequent failure in uncontrolled conditions.
As for compression test, that won't to you anything or not much as you likely don't have a base line from before the incident. Initial damage from running out of out will most likely show up in bottom end bearings and material in oil filter first.
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Old 24-05-2015, 12:46   #45
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Re: Ran engine w no oil- is it destroyed?

I'm with the 50/50 crew. I wouldn't ever worry about the compression. I would worry more about a thrown bearing. You might fill it with oil and try it. If oil pressure doesn't come up shut in down. If it does you may have dodged the bullet. If it don't, don't do more damage to a journal.
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