Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 31-12-2014, 04:26   #31
Registered User
 
sanibel sailor's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Sanibel FL
Boat: 1979 Bristol 35.5 CB
Posts: 978
Re: Racor Filter element

Need for filtration depends upon how bad the fuel is to start.

I had chronic fuel issues and filtration problems and went thru bunches of filters. When I discovered the top of my steel fuel tank rusted thru, it explained the water in the fuel. I replaced my entire system starting with a new Oring on the fill, new fill hose and tank, all new pickup tube, new supply, return and vent hose, complete disassembly of Racor, new electric fuel pump and new secondary filter. I use a lot less fuel than some people, but fuel up by jerry jug so I can see the fuel before it goes in, i have a screen in the fill funnel, and use Biobore or something to keep the crud out. It warms my little heart when I see the perfect fuel in my Racor without a speck of crap in the drain area. I think I checked my primary filter once, but have not had to replace it in 3 plus years. Replaced the secondary once when I had it off for another reason.

My experience will lead me in the future to deal with the primary problem of filtration- bad fuel- at the source.
__________________

__________________
John Churchill Sanibel FL
NURDLE, 1979 Bristol 35.5 CB
sanibel sailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-12-2014, 04:45   #32
Registered User
 
ranger42c's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Maryland, USA
Boat: 42' Sportfish
Posts: 2,985
Re: Racor Filter element

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkSF View Post
Nomenclature. I'm calling the one on the engine the primary. Is that right?
No. The primary is the first in line from the fuel tank, and the secondary is the second in line from the fuel tank. The former is often something like a Racor combination filter and fuel/water separator. The latter is often a spin-on mounted on the engine.

-Chris
__________________

__________________
Selby Bay, South River, Chesapeake Bay, USA.
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-12-2014, 05:08   #33
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: On the hook in Florida
Boat: Tayana V42 - Passages
Posts: 504
Re: Racor Filter element

This paper makes a good argument against 2 micron primary filters.

http://www.seaskills.com/files/SeaSk...WhitePaper.pdf
__________________
Trying to live on 20th century money in the 21st century.
jcapo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-12-2014, 05:52   #34
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Racor Filter element

Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger42c View Post
No. The primary is the first in line from the fuel tank, and the secondary is the second in line from the fuel tank. The former is often something like a Racor combination filter and fuel/water separator. The latter is often a spin-on mounted on the engine.

-Chris

The primary filter is the one on the engine.

It's important to realise most of these engines were never rated to require secondary filtering. ( have a look at tractors etc ) at best in fact many boats previously just had water and sediment traps. ( that's what mine have to this day )

The primary advantage of having two stage filtering is to spread the contamination load over the whole filtering system. If you have a 2 micron as a secondary , ie first in line from the tank, then it will contaminate faster and block quicker.

Personally I think we should be removing all filters from the engine block ! And mounting everything remote.

Dave


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-12-2014, 06:12   #35
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: Racor Filter element

I'm a little surprised by those who say you 'never' change your primary filter, meaning the one on the engine. Filters disintegrate over time. When I first got my boat I did a complete service and suspected the engine filter had not been replaced for a long time. When I removed it I found that some of the filter material had come away. So I decided to have an explore and cut it open. It was a VP original, which means a steal Bosch. Most of the filter material was a sodden mess. Because it had broken away it was letting the fuel through.

I would have thought it good practice to change both filters once a season at least.
__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-12-2014, 06:41   #36
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: On the hook in Florida
Boat: Tayana V42 - Passages
Posts: 504
Re: Racor Filter element

According to Parker, the primary filter has the larger pores and would be first in the filtration chain.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...i57eVhUE7xCwWQ

red for 30 micron primary filtration
blue for 10 micron primary or secondary
brown for 2 micron secondary/final filtration

__________________
Trying to live on 20th century money in the 21st century.
jcapo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-12-2014, 09:13   #37
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: French Polynesia
Boat: Allied 39
Posts: 470
Re: Racor Filter element

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
I'm a little surprised by those who say you 'never' change your primary filter, meaning the one on the engine. Filters disintegrate over time. When I first got my boat I did a complete service and suspected the engine filter had not been replaced for a long time. When I removed it I found that some of the filter material had come away. So I decided to have an explore and cut it open. It was a VP original, which means a steal Bosch. Most of the filter material was a sodden mess. Because it had broken away it was letting the fuel through.



I would have thought it good practice to change both filters once a season at least.

Yes I also was concerned about this as well and a good point. 30 years ago the first thing I did when I purchased Jacaranda was install a Racor 500 (2 micron), vacuum gauge and a water trap with an alarm. I also changed the filter on the Westerbeke (Napa Brand). I never changed the Westerbeke filter and after about 10 years became concerned so changed it and cut it open. Looked like new. When I sold the old Westerbeke I pulled off the engine fuel filter that I installed 15 years earlier, cut it open and it looked like new. I contacted Racor about 5 years ago concerned that running for years on the same Racor filter that it would go bad over time. Racor told me that it would not go bad and they said to not worry about it.

I replaced the filter in the Racor when we replaced the engine about 5 years ago and I think I am on the same filter(work log not at hand).

We are full time cruisers with a small 30 gallon tank and pre filter EVERYTIME we put a drop in the tank. I guess you could call me anal about clean fuel. We also add biocide every time as well.

Rustic Charm - Do you think it could be the brand of the filter that failed?




Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
www.jacarandajourney.com
chouliha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-12-2014, 09:33   #38
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,243
Re: Racor Filter element

The service schedule for my Universal diesel calls for the fuel filter to be changed every 300 hours, or once a year, whichever comes first. So regular changes are not only a good idea, they are required.
__________________
Bristol 31.1, SF Bay.
MarkSF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-12-2014, 15:17   #39
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: Racor Filter element

Quote:
Originally Posted by chouliha View Post
Yes I also was concerned about this as well and a good point. 30 years ago the first thing I did when I purchased Jacaranda was install a Racor 500 (2 micron), vacuum gauge and a water trap with an alarm. I also changed the filter on the Westerbeke (Napa Brand). I never changed the Westerbeke filter and after about 10 years became concerned so changed it and cut it open. Looked like new. When I sold the old Westerbeke I pulled off the engine fuel filter that I installed 15 years earlier, cut it open and it looked like new. I contacted Racor about 5 years ago concerned that running for years on the same Racor filter that it would go bad over time. Racor told me that it would not go bad and they said to not worry about it.

I replaced the filter in the Racor when we replaced the engine about 5 years ago and I think I am on the same filter(work log not at hand).

We are full time cruisers with a small 30 gallon tank and pre filter EVERYTIME we put a drop in the tank. I guess you could call me anal about clean fuel. We also add biocide every time as well.

Rustic Charm - Do you think it could be the brand of the filter that failed? Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
It could have been, yes, but as others have pointed out, engine manufacturers 'never' recommend not replacing filters and in fact recommend at least seasonal or at x hours. Racor replacement filters are cheap, $10-$15 each. Changed once a season, I think it's good logical peace of mind.

The other thng that 'might' be affecting filter material over time is additives?

I just don't think any fuel filter is designed to sit in diesel indefinitely. Nor is it wise to do so.
__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-12-2014, 18:42   #40
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: French Polynesia
Boat: Allied 39
Posts: 470
Re: Racor Filter element

Here is a bit more on fuel filters that you may find interesting

http://www.sbmar.com/index.php/artic...e_seaboard_way




Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
www.jacarandajourney.com
chouliha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-12-2014, 19:37   #41
Senior Cruiser
 
DeepFrz's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Boat: None at this time
Posts: 7,930
Re: Racor Filter element

A quote from the above link:
Quote:
Primary Fuel Water Separator Specifications
(minimum)
10 micron filter rating.
Separator must have a 36 gram minimum capacity per SAE J1905.
98.7% efficiency using ISO A2 test dust per SAE J1985 test methods.
Filter must remove 95% (or more) coarse water droplets over the life of the filter, per SAE1488.

BTW, these are the MINMUM requirements - Ask yourself, is that what you really want??
__________________
The Blue Dot Campaign. This Changes Everything.
DeepFrz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2015, 00:24   #42
Registered User
 
SimonV's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Posts: 1,316
Re: Racor Filter element

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Wow... what engine do you have... none of mine were more than a dribble of returned fuel... and they were: perkins and nanni to 85 hp...
My 4108 will empty a 5 gal/20lt jerry can in 30 minutes. Using some and putting the rest in the tank.
I use 2 micron rycor filters having 2 rycor 500 turbo's when one starts to clog I switch to the other, fuel in the Pacific can be hit and miss.

Sent from my GT-N7105T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
Simon

https://svgoodonya.blogspot.com.au/
SimonV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2015, 02:28   #43
Registered User
 
Dauntlessny's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: USA & Europe
Boat: Kadey Krogen '42
Posts: 273
Re: Racor Filter element

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schrewsburyduo View Post
Ok some very related advice from the cf Greek chorus. On my previous boat which had a beta installed professionally by a diesel freak, it had two filters one primary racor with a 30 micron and the engine mounted which was 10 micron. Now I have a yanmar 2gm20f. There's a primary racor also 30 microns, and the engine mounted which I gather from reading this thread is 10 or 20 microns.

The amount of flow for a small diesel like this is so small that I'm thinking that fitting a 2 micron in the racor might do the trick and save me from having to change the engine mounted filter which on the yanmar is very difficult to bleed etc. and really is a major pain in the butt. Do you all think I'm nuts for thinking about doing this? The diesel freak guy had me change both filters in the spring religiously no matter how many hours etc. As much as they are a pain in the butt to change, maybe it's still better than having to change injectors down the road... What to do?
yes.

I run 2 micron in the Racors for many of the reasons cited above, but in addition, I have had issues changing the engine mounted fuel filters, so prefer to keep those changes to a minimum.

I buy a carton of Racor filters on Amazon (I go thru them much more than most here at a third of the price I see in retail stores.

I do have also 10 micron, and have used them also, but have now pretty much settled on the 2
__________________
Richard on M/Y Dauntless
https://dauntlessatsea.com/
Location: https://share.delorme.com/dauntless
Dauntlessny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2015, 06:15   #44
Registered User
 
ranger42c's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Maryland, USA
Boat: 42' Sportfish
Posts: 2,985
Re: Racor Filter element

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
The primary filter is the one on the engine.

It's important to realise most of these engines were never rated to require secondary filtering. ( have a look at tractors etc ) at best in fact many boats previously just had water and sediment traps. ( that's what mine have to this day )

Ah. Not the way my Cummins owner's manual describes it, but then I've got larger engines.

But fair enough, if there's only one filter (like my tractor), then the on-engine filter is the first one (primary) in line from the fuel tank. The tractor manual (small Yanmar) doesn't use the words primary or secondary at all, with regards to filtration.

-Chris
__________________
Selby Bay, South River, Chesapeake Bay, USA.
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2015, 07:14   #45
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,388
Re: Racor Filter element

Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger42c View Post
Ah. Not the way my Cummins owner's manual describes it, but then I've got larger engines.

But fair enough, if there's only one filter (like my tractor), then the on-engine filter is the first one (primary) in line from the fuel tank. The tractor manual (small Yanmar) doesn't use the words primary or secondary at all, with regards to filtration.

-Chris
Interesting. My 1959 Massey Ferguson has dual filters, a spin on and water separator with a bowl that looks like a mini-Racor.

Also the manual for my Westerbeke, the manual for the Volvo in my last boat and the shop in Ft Lauderdale where I bought parts referred to the first filter in line from the tank to the engine as the primary and the one on the block as the secondary.
__________________

__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
men, racor

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mismarked (?) Spectra Filter Element Dreaming Yachtsman Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 2 31-01-2013 17:21
racor 500 filter what micron filter? quartersplash Engines and Propulsion Systems 21 09-05-2012 08:15
Filter Gasoline in a Racor Diesel Filter ? Sailorman Ed Engines and Propulsion Systems 4 04-12-2011 20:37
For Sale: Racor 500-Like Filter and Valves for Dual Filter Setup funjohnson Classifieds Archive 2 07-08-2011 13:52
Racor 500 Element Warning Pete the Cat Engines and Propulsion Systems 33 10-11-2006 03:55



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 16:38.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.