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Old 26-10-2013, 16:39   #31
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Re: Racor 500 Question?

You're of course correct BrnFrz, excellent idea.
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Old 26-10-2013, 16:46   #32
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Re: Racor 500 Question?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlF View Post
I'd consider the Walbro FRB-13 pump. It pumps 43 GPH and is Coast Guard Approved . It doesn't cost much more than the non-CG approved.

Walbro FRB-13 Industrial & Marine Fuel Pump from Fuel-Pumps.net

The 43GPH of this Walbro is a good match to the 60GPH capacity of the Racor 500. When polishing it's best to move the fuel fast enough to get the "turbo" effect to happen but not so fast that the water doesn't have time to separate.

I've also seen it recommended (but don't know this for a fact) that it is best in polishing for the fuel return to go to the bottom of the tank instead of exiting at the top of the tank. This will reduce the amount of foaming of the diesel from entrapped air.

Note that the FRB Walbro's have a 70 micron filter screen that could clog up over time. They have an optional 420 micron screen if you just want to let the Racor do it.
I agree on matching the pump as closely as possible to the filter. With 150gals I'd like to be able to do it faster than 2 1/2 hours. Am I being picky?

I was looking at the Racor 1000 but can't find the flow rate for it, does anyone know?

The Facet pumps that Stu Jackson mentioned are 45 gpm. Really good equipment from what I see.

The Walbro is the one I was looking at as well. Again, as Iadora mentioned it's about the flow. Is a 2 1/2 hour polishing regimen reasonable? Typical?
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Old 26-10-2013, 17:10   #33
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Re: Racor 500 Question?

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I appreciate your input Mark.
Do you think that since my tanks are new that a 30 micron filter is necessary? My thinking is that I can go ten micron on the polishing system right off the bat and keep the fuel cleaner .... Maybe????

Then go with a ten micron on the primary side along with a 2 micron and a bypass in between them.

I like that.
A 10um on the polisher as well as the primaries would be fine. I chose 30 on the polisher because I count on it to clean very dirty fuel should we ever encounter it. Then the 10um primaries would take care of the engine itself.

Besides, the housings are the same - you just swap out dirt-cheap filter elements in the filtration size you prefer. So no need to worry or decide up front about it. Put in a 10um and keep a 30um element on hand for if you get a really bad tank of fuel. That's such a good idea that I think I will steal it for our system!

I don't understand the 10um-2um statement. Are you thinking about series elements in the primaries? I think that is overkill. We use 10um in the primaries and use the spin on engine secondary for finer filtration.

Again, 20um particles are what damages diesels. You will essentially get the vast majority of those with 10um primaries and the secondaries will take care of the 1% of them that make it through the primaries. Anything smaller is fine for the engine. Anything larger should be taken out with the polishing system.

2um primaries will not only clog faster, they are actually warned against (and not covered under warranty) by most engine manufacturers. Check your engine owner manual and I bet it says to use no finer than 10um elements in the primary filter.

Mark
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Old 26-10-2013, 17:12   #34
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Re: Racor 500 Question?

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Maybe a simple line diagram? I know I'm imposing now, sorry. If someone were to ask me that, I wouldn't know where to begin.
No, I can't. It is dependent upon the number of tanks, number of engines, and other factors I can't contemplate in my present state of mind. In simplest terms, instead of routing polished fuel back to the originating tank, it is routed toward the engine(s) while preventing returning the fuel directly (instead of through the engine) to the originating tank. In my setup, I turn off "to engine" and open up "to polisher" at the fuel input manifold for my four tanks, turn the valve on the polisher circuit directing the fuel to the engine, and keeping the "from polisher" closed on the manifold controlling fuel returning to the tanks.

You're most welcome to visit and inspect my boat's systems first-hand.
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Old 26-10-2013, 17:15   #35
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Re: Racor 500 Question?

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Originally Posted by CarlF View Post
I've also seen it recommended (but don't know this for a fact) that it is best in polishing for the fuel return to go to the bottom of the tank instead of exiting at the top of the tank. This will reduce the amount of foaming of the diesel from entrapped air.
Besides reducing foaming, having it at or near the bottom also helps stir up the tank for better polishing. Particularly if you can locate the return into a separate part of the tank than the pickup.

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Old 26-10-2013, 17:16   #36
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Re: Racor 500 Question?

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I was looking at the Racor 1000 but can't find the flow rate for it, does anyone know?
180 gal/hr

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Old 26-10-2013, 17:25   #37
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Re: Racor 500 Question?

I have pick ups in the middle of both a starboard and a port tanks, plumbed to the bottom of the tanks.
I'd like to wire the pump on the fuel polishing side so that it runs whenever the engine is running, but will also allow me to run it independently. And in doing so as is typical with me and this boat, that takes me to the edge of the abyss that is my knowledge.

I really appreciate everyone's helpful comments and thoughtful discourse.
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Old 26-10-2013, 18:03   #38
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Re: Racor 500 Question?

When we replaced our tank I designed it specifically for a fuel polishing system. The tank is V shaped and the polish pick up is within 1/8" of the bottom of the tank. The return is via a dip tube and these tappings are totally separate from the engine supply & return..




I used a simple Racor 900 and originally a Carter rotary vane pump.


I also use a drag needle vacuum gauge:

The original Carter pump failed at year three and simply could not take the continuous duty use but it was worth a try. I replaced it with a continuous duty Walbro and it has been perfect. Our fuel is spotless as is the inside of the tank. The polishing system is designed to run whenever the engine is on but we have a switch to turn it on or off when ever we want to. The install was very simple and it has proven extremely effective...

I use a 10 µm filter in Racor 900 housing. If you start with a clean tank it is amazing what an active polishing system can do...
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Old 26-10-2013, 18:16   #39
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Re: Racor 500 Question?

As usual Maine Sail, you be the man. I'm glad I had the opportunity to design these tanks with the fuel polishing pickups built in. I also added two hatches per tank for ease of cleaning.

I thought that the system could be wired like that. I just need to put it on paper so I understand it.

I'd be interested to know what pump it is that you're using now. Edit; I see you said which one you were using. You don't mind the low flow?

I notice that you have no by pass or ability to "hot swap" a filter on the engine supply side.

I don't see how I can NOT do a drag needle pressure gauge when I do this.
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Old 26-10-2013, 18:24   #40
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Re: Racor 500 Question?

Very nice MS.
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Old 26-10-2013, 18:32   #41
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Re: Racor 500 Question?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strait Shooter View Post

I'd be interested to know what pump it is that you're using now. Edit; I see you said which one you were using. You don't mind the low flow?

I notice that you have no by pass or ability to "hot swap" a filter on the engine supply side.

I don't see how I can NOT do a drag needle pressure gauge when I do this.
Our tank is smaller, about 40 gallons, so the pump can turn the tank almost twice per hour. The other thing is it runs continuous every time the motor runs so the fuel is completely spotless....

I should never need a hot swap with this system. Those sytems are nice but simply not necessary for our boat. I did install one on our old Cummins powered cruiser but not necessary for our current system.. Even if I ever needed to, that .001% chance, I can change our primary in about 2 minutes. Bleeding is as easy as key on with our engine....
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Old 26-10-2013, 18:43   #42
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Re: Racor 500 Question?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strait Shooter View Post
I have pick ups in the middle of both a starboard and a port tanks, plumbed to the bottom of the tanks.
I'd like to wire the pump on the fuel polishing side so that it runs whenever the engine is running, but will also allow me to run it independently. And in doing so as is typical with me and this boat, that takes me to the edge of the abyss that is my knowledge.

I really appreciate everyone's helpful comments and thoughtful discourse.
Perhaps this will be helpful. We have a few more tanks than usual, but the principal is the same. As noted by others, if you can polish at 30 microns, you'll bring the fuel to the standard it was delivered from the refinery. 10 microns prior to presenting the fuel to the OEM filters gets you what you need. In our system, we polish underway at 30 microns, transfer at 10, then filter again at 2 before the OEM filter, but that's probably overkill.

If you have ac power available, the carbonator pumps described below are quiet, continuous duty and run for years and years. You can find the Grainger part numbers for anything in our system you like on the website below, in the fuel polishing section. Hope that helps.
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Old 26-10-2013, 19:08   #43
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My primary fuel pump is a Facet, has worked well.


Maine, is that a Parker/racor gauge? I've seen some cheaper ones out there, your thoughts?
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Old 26-10-2013, 19:35   #44
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Re: Racor 500 Question?

Maine Sail, I agree wholeheartedly about the need to hot swap. It's been my feeling that if you start with new tanks and polish with a very good regimen, then the need to swap should be nil. I've also thought that swapping a filter out isn't a big deal and I can do it fairly quickly. Thanks again for all your help with my boat, I seriously appreciate your efforts.

Delfin, why in the name of everything holy did you show me that boat? WTF? over! While I'm afraid my system will be more to the style of Main Sails, I DO appreciate the reasoning behind your filtering scenario. Thank you! Seriously nice boat......holy crap! Oh, and grainger should be every sailors dream. You can buy some "marine" sticky labels if it makes you feel warmer or fuzzier.
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Old 26-10-2013, 21:19   #45
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Re: Racor 500 Question?

This is awesome!
I went to town today and there were 7 posts when I left, now I get home and it's 43 posts.
Some great imput here.
Thanks everyone.

What's about the best price that I could expect to pay for a dual Racor 500 system?
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