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Old 15-02-2018, 13:18   #31
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Re: Progression of fuel filters

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Originally Posted by daletournier View Post
The west marine type filters only filter out quite big stuff, I think their not even 100 micron?
I don't remember the size of the West Marine filter. I have two and unfortunately are not near the boats. Tomorrow I will see if they have one in the store and see if it says what size they are. Hopefully I can get you an answer tomorrow.

The one in the link is a 50micron filter. I couldn't find the figure on their website or on Amazon, but I called tech support and they told me it is 50 microns.

I suppose depending upon where you are it is better than nothing. They all separate water so that is also helpful. I recall reading a test from YBW magazine a number of years ago and I recall the West Marine filter came out as the best by far. I did some quick research on the Mr. Filter and the majority of reviewers give it high marks.

I use them since it can't hurt and it often reduces spillage when fueling from a Jerry can. I will tell you that the bigger ones do take up some space so that is the only downsize I've found to them.
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Old 15-02-2018, 18:19   #32
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Re: Progression of fuel filters

to all- start with the engine manufacture requirements of filter- then work backwards-
The fuel today- gas and diesel - have a shelf life- which is significantly shorter than people realize.
Fuel management should include a balance of filters and conditioners.
Older engines commonly went 30 micron primary and ten micron secondary. The 30 micron is catching the crap, particularly the tank sludge- that occurs from tanks that do not draw/drain from the bottom. The bottom sludge is a natural amount of water, growth, and if biobor or similar fungal killer used- the dead fossils of the alge.
The finer ten mil secondary is designed to protect the pump and injectors.
The newer engines, with efficiency and other improvements dictate more use of 2 micron filters for the secondary.
A vessel plugging in the gulf stream is a perfect example of the tank bottom being stirred and presented to the suction tube.
Fuel conditioners are not all the same, but with modern fuels and engines the use of various products is paramount. The excuse of those who have never had a problem- you have just been on the positive side of the lottery- for the rest- google your preference- and research which ones are profit makers and which ones are effective.
In the commercial market look into FUEL RIGHT made in Delaware- It will clean out a tank emulsifying the sludge and sending to the filters. Very good product for vessels storing large quantities of fuel for longer times or vessels loading from lesser filtered supplies.

Whatever product one chooses- understand that all fuel deliveries have water- which when introduced into a marine environment creates growth- which grows with storage time. fact of life.
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Old 15-02-2018, 19:16   #33
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Re: Progression of fuel filters

Mirage,
the original Bosch engine mounted filter on the MD7 engine was a 7 micron. If you couple that with a Racor 500 with a 10 micron element you will get excellent engine protection and long service life.

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Old 15-02-2018, 20:55   #34
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Re: Progression of fuel filters

A common misconception is that paper elements function like a wire screen; the holes are either 2, 5, 10, 20, or 30 microns in diameter and the dirt resembles marbles. This is not even close.

The dirt, if it contains bacteria, is sub micron. The "ooze" that contains them is larger, and depending on the density of the fibers and the pressure differential, may or may not or may not ooze through. Tar particles are similar.

The rating is simply an average of what is retained using simulated dirt. Particles that are finer will be retained and some particles 10x larger will pass even a very good brand. There are several test procedures and they don't all use the same one. They chose different meanings of average. But in no sense are the filters "absolute" in the sense that a screen is.

Thus, a 10 micron filter may out perform a 2 micron filter, if the pressure drop is less (larger filter) and the rating systems are a little different. A 2 micron filter might become a 5 micron filter at higher flow.

Not simple. The above is based both in refinery experience and testing experience. And what is best for the engine depends on additional factors. So be wary of being too set in ideas based on what seems obvious or logical. Dirt is way more subtle than that.

Best of luck.
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Old 15-02-2018, 21:24   #35
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Re: Progression of fuel filters

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putting a finer filter in front of a coarse filter is counterproductive to the concept. You now only have one filter.
True, The big deal with the racor is I can replace the racor filter in 3-5 minutes and it needs no engine bleeding. Plus you can do it without spilling a drop of diesel, something you can't do with the $%^& engine mount filter. The engine mounted filter change on the yanmar gm engines always requires that the engine be bled again afterwards. Plus it's a bit hard to get too on my boat.

Really you only need one filter of 10 microns or less. I leave the engine filter in place for 3 to 4 years (cough or more) at a time. Only reason I leave it in at all, is just to catch trash if the mechanical fuel pump dies. Otherwise it's like new. The Racor 500 design is just a better filter with far more surface area and super easy to change.
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Old 15-02-2018, 21:30   #36
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Re: Progression of fuel filters

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Originally Posted by thinwater View Post
A common misconception is that paper elements function like a wire screen; the holes are either 2, 5, 10, 20, or 30 microns in diameter and the dirt resembles marbles. This is not even close.

The dirt, if it contains bacteria, is sub micron. The "ooze" that contains them is larger, and depending on the density of the fibers and the pressure differential, may or may not or may not ooze through. Tar particles are similar.

The rating is simply an average of what is retained using simulated dirt. Particles that are finer will be retained and some particles 10x larger will pass even a very good brand. There are several test procedures and they don't all use the same one. They chose different meanings of average. But in no sense are the filters "absolute" in the sense that a screen is.

Thus, a 10 micron filter may out perform a 2 micron filter, if the pressure drop is less (larger filter) and the rating systems are a little different. A 2 micron filter might become a 5 micron filter at higher flow.

Not simple. The above is based both in refinery experience and testing experience. And what is best for the engine depends on additional factors. So be wary of being too set in ideas based on what seems obvious or logical. Dirt is way more subtle than that.

Best of luck.
^^^^+1, Exactly so. Though generally a 2 micron racor will filter out more solids then a 10 micron under most conditions. Though it is possible for a 10 micron to do as well or better. It's not an exact science.
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Old 15-02-2018, 21:56   #37
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Re: Progression of fuel filters

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Originally Posted by sailorchic34 View Post
^^^^+1, Exactly so. Though generally a 2 micron racor will filter out more solids then a 10 micron under most conditions. Though it is possible for a 10 micron to do as well or better. It's not an exact science.
For some reason I think you and Thinwater know what you are talking about.
Thanks
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Old 15-02-2018, 22:37   #38
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Re: Progression of fuel filters

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With "Miami Boat Show Pricing", a Racor FG 500 Turbine Filter retails for $173.99 at Defender.com (See Racor Filters). There is no way you're going to get that for anything less. And, Racor Aquablock filter elements sell for $10.99 each. Don't even think about going with a cheap knock-off.

FWIW...

Been using my 500fg griffin knockoffs for several years on various boats with no issue at all.
All parts interchangable with genuine 500fg
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Old 16-02-2018, 01:22   #39
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Re: Progression of fuel filters

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Been using my 500fg griffin knockoffs for several years on various boats with no issue at all.
All parts interchangable with genuine 500fg
Good to know. I was actually thinking that with the price of the knock-offs I could buy several and have plenty of spare parts. Orings, bowls, etc.

I think that and a case of 10 micron filters will work. This has been a productive thread for me.

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Old 16-02-2018, 04:41   #40
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Re: Progression of fuel filters

On my boat I use the same rating in the pre filter as is fitted on the engine, in my case 10 micron.

The off engine filter is conditioning the fuel to meet the engine requirement, the on engine filter is there to protect the engine components from damage.

I know it seems more logical to fit a coarse filter first, but if you do this the engine filter is being used as the last stage of conditioning, which it isn't meant for.

In my installation the fuel returned from the engines while running is considerable, of course it depends upon how full my tank is, but "normally" within say 4 hours the returned volume is equal to the volume of fuel in the tank. You can see that within a short period of time most of the fuel in the tank has been through the on engine filter, if you have an off engine filter which is more coarse than the on engine filter from that point on it isn't doing anything until you take some more fuel on board or until the bottom gets shaken around by weather.
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Old 16-02-2018, 05:32   #41
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Re: Progression of fuel filters

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I go with the prefilter advice, or if you just go to a super fine pre filter, then having two filters is illogical.
My pre filter is 30 micron, and the final is Yanmar and you have a hard time finding out what that really is, but I don’t think it’s a 2 micron, I think it’s bigger, of course fuel cannot be too clean, filtering finer can’t be anything but good in the long run.
I don't know how to do better than the engine makers' engineers. The factory recommendation for my Yanmar 3GM30F is 30 primary and 10 secondary, so that's what I stay with.
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Old 16-02-2018, 05:43   #42
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Re: Progression of fuel filters

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Originally Posted by thinwater View Post
This same debate rages among chemical engineers and refinery engineers as well. The answer is that there is no single right answer. Believe, I've used both strategies and gone through many thousands of filters. A few things to consider:
  • Is the secondary filter hard to change without shut down? With engines, yes, and that can be a problem. You NEVER want a single critical filter to foul between scheduled outages. With twin filterers, you can change one at a time.
  • Is the fouling surface or in the pores? Fouling on the surface is sometimes actually reduced by having larger particles present which add porosity to the filter cake. In other words, just the fine stuff may quickly make an impermeable slime, where as larger particles might allow some flow.
  • Can you add more surface? With Raycors, they can be much larger and can be in parallel.
  • Do run both at the same time or one at a time? The advantage of swapping is that you have one fresh filter ready to go. However, by running them both, you will get at least 4x the filter life, because the surface area is greater and pressure drop is less. To change you may have to throttle all the way back.
So no single answer. A single fine pre-filter is probably bad (there should be two) and twin coarse filters may not be optimum either (they may allow the inaccessible engine mounted filter to foul underway, which is the worst outcome). Thus, I am no fan of 30 micron filters.



I believe 10 micron is fine enough for a number of reasons.

I use 2 micron pre-filters in my dual Racor setup.

I'll explain my logic:

My engine-mounted filter is 2 microns. If there is dirt in the fuel which would clog a 2 micron pre-filter, why would I want to let it through the big primary filter (which can be switched over in a second to the fresh second one with the engine running) just to clog the much smaller secondary filter (which can't be changed without shutting down the engine)?

So I just watch the vacuum gauge on the Racors. The secondary filter is just insurance.

In fact, I am able to buy very good fuel here and the 2 micron filters don't clog, or anyway, haven't so far. I change them once a year prophylactically.

If I ever got an issue with them, I can change them quickly and without even shutting the engine down, using the Racor system. Switch-change, switch-change. I keep a couple of cases of the expensive Racor aqua-block filter elements on hand. I used to think that I would switch over to a 10 micron filter, if I ever started clogging the 2, and then I realized that I would just be passing the problem over to the engine-mounted filter.

YMMV!
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Old 30-04-2018, 06:10   #43
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Re: Progression of fuel filters

does the use of 2 micron primary filters in tandem restrict the fuel flow in any ways.
Need to add a new system,like the idea of just use 2 Micron in both.
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Old 30-04-2018, 07:39   #44
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Progression of fuel filters

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does the use of 2 micron primary filters in tandem restrict the fuel flow in any ways.

Need to add a new system,like the idea of just use 2 Micron in both.


Yes, so you size the filter larger, then of course the restriction is less.
Most of us the filters capacity is way in excess of what out little motors need, just don’t forget to include bypass fuel, so in some motors even if your only burning 1 gallon an hour, you may be filtering 10 an hour. Operating a Diesel engine is in effect running a fuel polisher.

I run 30 micron primaries, and whatever the Yanmar final filter is. I have seen different numbers, so I’m not sure what it is really, but believe it to be larger than 2 micron.
I will clog several primary filters before the final needs changing, in fact in four years the final has only stopped up once.
When I first bought the Boat, filter changes were frequent until over time the tank cleaned itself out. Now I will go though a primary maybe once a year? About 150 hours?
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Old 30-04-2018, 10:43   #45
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Re: Progression of fuel filters

I run a separate fuel polisher I made, using large capacity SS filter housings. I run 2 of them with a high volume (72 GPH) Carter pump between filters to protect pump. It's completely, ridiculously overkill but since I've implemented this, my Racor essentially looks brand new at end of season and I have nothing in the turbine bowl. I have it set to run when my engine is running.

I run a 10 micron filter in first housing and a 5 micron in second. So all fuel being polished is returned to tank after going through 5 micron filter. My Racor is a 10 micron and Westerbeke primary is 2 micron I think. I built a vacuum gauge using a high spec navy vacuum gauge and it never moves off 0.

The real benefit is squeaky clean fuel, the filters I use are $5, and it acts as a backup if the fuel pump on engine dies I can bypass and supply fuel to engine that essentially is already filtered to 5 micron.
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