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Old 11-07-2013, 02:29   #91
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Re: Primary diesel filter/water separator recommendation

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Originally Posted by Delfin View Post
For small tanks like yours a single Racor 500 10 or 30 micron filter is needed out of the tank (primary), before it gets to the OEM filter, which is likely 2 to 5 microns. A 30 micron filter becomes a 10 micron filter after about 5 hours of usage from picking up stuff. Clean fuel direct from the refinery is filtered to 30 microns, so if you start with a 10, you are opting to make the fuel cleaner than it was delivered. If you start with a 30, you are opting to clean the fuel if it gets crudded up, but as noted, 30s become 10s pretty fast anyway.

Don't use a filter larger than a 500 because the bigger ones are designed to have more flow running through them to work properly and you don't have that.

Just as an FYI, if you have a lot of tankage (like moi), then you polish the fuel at 30 microns, transfer it to the day tank through a 10 micron filter and put 2 micron filters on the engine before it gets to the OEM filter. Belts, suspenders, and sewing your pants to your backside, I suppose, but dirty fuel is not one of my worries.
Ok thanks again for your kind posts fellow members!

I have now decided to get the GRIFFIN GTB341DM-MA / G900DM-MA
This is Similar to Racor 75900MAX30 - 900MA Series - Marine Turbine Series > - Marine Fuel Filtration
I have checked the price with the Griffin dealer in Singapore and the price is about half of the Racor model. (SGD 850 ~ USD 670)

Why go larger than the "Racor 500 Dual Turbine" for my small 50HP diesel? Because I believe the bigger the filter element the better the end result. Actually I would have gone with the Racor 751000MAX30 - 1000MA Series - Marine Turbine Series > - Marine Fuel Filtration or similar but I just don't have the space. Not even if I fitted outside the engine compartment to my workshop (starboard aft cabin). The "Turbine action" I believe is more marketing than an important function. Its the filter size that matters a t the end of the day.

I will also get a separate single unit for fuel polishing; uses the same model filter element as the dual, so no need to store many different types.
This I decided to keep separate from the engine fuel filtering because I expect the polishing filter to require much more service than the engine filter. The primary engine filter I want to reserve for engine fuel filtering only. I don't want the engine primary filter to be already dirty from fuel polishing when I go to sea. So this is why separate filters for the engine and polishing.


Ok, then to my question!
I asked the local Perkins dealer about my secondary diesel filter, part # 26569051 (the last one from tank to engine, mounted on the engine side before the high pressure diesel pump):

"What micron size filter is recommended for my engine? I cant find the micron recommendation from my Perkins manuals."

The reply was: "Sorry to inform that Perkins reply it is a proprietary information cannot be provided."

So, Perkins won't tell me what the Secondary fuel filter micron size is. My guess is its somewhere between 2 -10 micron, maybe 5?

Does anyone know what the secondary fuel filter micron size is exactly on a 1989 Perkins Prima M50?

Because the answer to that helps me to decide the micron size I order for my Primary filters. I'm thinking:

If Secondary filter (Engine) is 2 micron -> go for 10 micron Primary filters.
If Secondary filter (Engine) is 10 micron -> go for 30 micron Primary filters.

Any comments/opinions please?

Erik
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Old 11-07-2013, 02:40   #92
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Re: Primary Diesel Filter/Water Separator Recommendation

Sorry I don't know the micron rating.

It takes a lot to clog and raise the suction pressure for the big 900 series filters and I would be inclined to go with 10micron anyway.
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Old 11-07-2013, 06:59   #93
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Re: Primary Diesel Filter/Water Separator Recommendation

Erik, I stand corrected. I thought the Racor had a minimum flow but in looking at the literature I see they don't so your reasoning is quite correct.
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Old 11-07-2013, 07:15   #94
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Re: Primary Diesel Filter/Water Separator Recommendation

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Erik, I stand corrected. I thought the Racor had a minimum flow but in looking at the literature I see they don't so your reasoning is quite correct.
I first thought the "turbine action" was an important function. But I got a call from Racor (weeks after I emailed them) and we chatted for a bout 15 minutes. I asked about this Turbine action thing as it was an important question for me and the techrep said its not so important actually. The filter size is. So I'm happy I finally got an answer to that one. Also have talked with some knowledgeable people here so I'm convinced.
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Old 17-07-2013, 08:46   #95
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Re: Primary Diesel Filter/Water Separator Recommendation

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Sorry I don't know the micron rating.

It takes a lot to clog and raise the suction pressure for the big 900 series filters and I would be inclined to go with 10micron anyway.
Found an equivalent Baldwin secondary filter which is 5 micron so I presume now my original Perkins is also 5 micron.

Can you ran the Racor 900 dual in series so that you utilize both filtering units?

If yes, I'm thinking to initially use it as a "multistage" filtering system, with a 30 micron element in the first one and a 10 micron in the second one.

Does this make any sense? Bad or good idea? I would lose the capability to switch to a clean filter on the fly, but on the othar hand I would have a double filter surface area?

Further on, when I'm confident my tanks and diesel are clean (after cleaning and separate system polishing) I'm thinking to go back to normal and only use one unit of the duals at a time, thus leaving the other clean and stand by.

What say you?

Erik
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Old 17-07-2013, 08:55   #96
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Re: Primary Diesel Filter/Water Separator Recommendation

Erik, you might take a look at the filtration/polishing system described on Delfins website, below. Sounds very much like what you are describing.
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Old 17-07-2013, 09:46   #97
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Re: Primary Diesel Filter/Water Separator Recommendation

This is the spec on the Perkins filter


C - Length: MM 141
B - Thread Size: N/A M16 x 1.5
D - Gasket OD: MM 70
E - Gasket ID: MM 61
Efficiency Beta 2: Micron 3
Efficiency Beta 75: Micron 11
Weight: Kgs 0.41
Efficiency 99%: Micron 11
Cube: Cubic Meters 0.01
A - OD: MM 77

Dave
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Old 17-07-2013, 09:50   #98
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Re: Primary Diesel Filter/Water Separator Recommendation

I see no point in having a primary filter anywhere near in size to the primary, so a secondary of 20 micron would be fine. Perkins will not have a recommendation as generally they only require water separation not a further filter.
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Old 17-07-2013, 10:14   #99
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Re: Primary Diesel Filter/Water Separator Recommendation

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikFinn View Post
Found an equivalent Baldwin secondary filter which is 5 micron so I presume now my original Perkins is also 5 micron.

Can you ran the Racor 900 dual in series so that you utilize both filtering units?

If yes, I'm thinking to initially use it as a "multistage" filtering system, with a 30 micron element in the first one and a 10 micron in the second one.

Does this make any sense? Bad or good idea? I would lose the capability to switch to a clean filter on the fly, but on the othar hand I would have a double filter surface area?

Further on, when I'm confident my tanks and diesel are clean (after cleaning and separate system polishing) I'm thinking to go back to normal and only use one unit of the duals at a time, thus leaving the other clean and stand by.

What say you?

Erik
Multistage filtering, with two primary filters in series does have some merit, but I would prefer the ability to instantly switch over a clogged primary filter. With only two primary filters I would therefore plumb the filters in parallel with identical micron rating filters.

The 900 filters will hold 4-5x the solids of the 500 series, so it will take a long time for them to clog even with relatively fine 10micron rating and slightly dirty fuel.
A vaccume gauge is useful accessory.
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Old 17-09-2013, 07:10   #100
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Re: Primary Diesel Filter/Water Separator Recommendation

Excellent forum and great information. Would appreciate experienced review of the following Diesel Fuel Water Separation system that I am considering installing.
I have the Perkins 4236 ( 84 hp ) and would appreciate your review and comments for the following installation :
1- Between my diesel tank would be first the ALGAE - X Fuel Conditioner.
2- Next in line a WALBORO 60 GPH 12V Fuel Pump
3- Next Griffin dual 900 ( G900DM - MA ) 10 micron ( same as the Racor 900 only more $$$)
The Racor 900 can have an intergral priming pump built in ( extra $$$ )
4- Next the Racor Dual 500 ( 10 micron )
5- Next the Racor Spin on Series 230R, comes with built in priming pump ( 2 micron )

Does my system look ok ?

Question : FIRST IN LINE FILTER, better to use the more expensive Racor 900 available with the built in Priming Pump and be able to bleed all the filters between this filter and the engine.
The Griffin filters are a much lower price. But the Racor 900 with the ability to add the built in Priming Pump seems like a very attrictive option.
What say you experienced Cruisers.

Thank you.
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Old 17-09-2013, 07:20   #101
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Re: Primary Diesel Filter/Water Separator Recommendation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Millar View Post
Excellent forum and great information. Would appreciate experienced review of the following Diesel Fuel Water Separation system that I am considering installing.
I have the Perkins 4236 ( 84 hp ) and would appreciate your review and comments for the following installation :
1- Between my diesel tank would be first the ALGAE - X Fuel Conditioner.
2- Next in line a WALBORO 60 GPH 12V Fuel Pump
3- Next Griffin dual 900 ( G900DM - MA ) 10 micron ( same as the Racor 900 only more $$$)
The Racor 900 can have an intergral priming pump built in ( extra $$$ )
4- Next the Racor Dual 500 ( 10 micron )
5- Next the Racor Spin on Series 230R, comes with built in priming pump ( 2 micron )

Does my system look ok ?

Question : FIRST IN LINE FILTER, better to use the more expensive Racor 900 available with the built in Priming Pump and be able to bleed all the filters between this filter and the engine.
The Griffin filters are a much lower price. But the Racor 900 with the ability to add the built in Priming Pump seems like a very attrictive option.
What say you experienced Cruisers.

Thank you.

Might depend on what level of filtration your engine is designed for. Over filtration, especially at the secondary, doesn't necessarily help... especially since these are often not as easily/quickly serviced as off-engine Racors, et al.

-Chris
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Old 17-09-2013, 07:27   #102
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Re: Primary Diesel Filter/Water Separator Recommendation

I have similar on my 4.236, except:
-the order is different; I have the first filter before the electric pump, so never need to worry about clogging the screen in the electric pump.
-I am using 30micron in the first filter, 2 micron in the second filter, 6micron standard Perkins filter on the engine.
-No primers on the filters, that's what the electric pump is for.

The engine seems to have no problem drawing the fuel through the filters and pump with the electric pump turned off.

Cheers,
JM.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Millar View Post
Excellent forum and great information. Would appreciate experienced review of the following Diesel Fuel Water Separation system that I am considering installing.
I have the Perkins 4236 ( 84 hp ) and would appreciate your review and comments for the following installation :
1- Between my diesel tank would be first the ALGAE - X Fuel Conditioner.
2- Next in line a WALBORO 60 GPH 12V Fuel Pump
3- Next Griffin dual 900 ( G900DM - MA ) 10 micron ( same as the Racor 900 only more $$$)
The Racor 900 can have an intergral priming pump built in ( extra $$$ )
4- Next the Racor Dual 500 ( 10 micron )
5- Next the Racor Spin on Series 230R, comes with built in priming pump ( 2 micron )

Does my system look ok ?

Question : FIRST IN LINE FILTER, better to use the more expensive Racor 900 available with the built in Priming Pump and be able to bleed all the filters between this filter and the engine.
The Griffin filters are a much lower price. But the Racor 900 with the ability to add the built in Priming Pump seems like a very attrictive option.
What say you experienced Cruisers.

Thank you.
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Old 17-09-2013, 08:34   #103
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Re: Primary Diesel Filter/Water Separator Recommendation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Millar View Post
Excellent forum and great information. Would appreciate experienced review of the following Diesel Fuel Water Separation system that I am considering installing.
I have the Perkins 4236 ( 84 hp ) and would appreciate your review and comments for the following installation :
1- Between my diesel tank would be first the ALGAE - X Fuel Conditioner.
2- Next in line a WALBORO 60 GPH 12V Fuel Pump
3- Next Griffin dual 900 ( G900DM - MA ) 10 micron ( same as the Racor 900 only more $$$)
The Racor 900 can have an intergral priming pump built in ( extra $$$ )
4- Next the Racor Dual 500 ( 10 micron )
5- Next the Racor Spin on Series 230R, comes with built in priming pump ( 2 micron )

Does my system look ok ?

Question : FIRST IN LINE FILTER, better to use the more expensive Racor 900 available with the built in Priming Pump and be able to bleed all the filters between this filter and the engine.
The Griffin filters are a much lower price. But the Racor 900 with the ability to add the built in Priming Pump seems like a very attrictive option.
What say you experienced Cruisers.

Thank you.
We have 3 of the Algae-X - save your money and start at #2.

You seem a bit over-filtrated. No problem except money and potential for leaks and troubleshooting air ingress.

I would (and did) set up the larger filters as a separate independent polishing system, put the 500's with 10um elements on the engine as primaries and forget the 2um spin on - your engine secondary will serve that purpose.

Use a priming bulb on the engine filter line if priming is needed. If costs are no problem, put another electric pump there instead.

Mark
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Old 17-09-2013, 08:48   #104
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Re: Primary Diesel Filter/Water Separator Recommendation

Hi Jeff,

Overall good plan but maybe overkill? Some comments, questions and suggestions below.

One comment about filter size, I believe the common recommendation by the filter companies and the diesel engine manufacturers is to go with a coarser filter first, usually 30 micron, and a fine filter in the last step usually 10 micron. With 30 micron in the first filters you will tend to clog the system more often and it isn't really necessary with the 10 micron coming in after.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Millar View Post
Excellent forum and great information. Would appreciate experienced review of the following Diesel Fuel Water Separation system that I am considering installing.
I have the Perkins 4236 ( 84 hp ) and would appreciate your review and comments for the following installation :
1- Between my diesel tank would be first the ALGAE - X Fuel Conditioner.

If this the their "magnetic" fuel conditioner I would toss it. In my opinion (and that of most that are expert in the field) this is voodoo. The gunk that grows in diesel fuel is not in any way effected by a magnetic field of the strength produced by this gadget. Don't waste your money

2- Next in line a WALBORO 60 GPH 12V Fuel Pump

Seem like a high flow rate but as long as the pressure rating is OK I think it wouldn't be a problem. I believe around 5 psi is recommend for your fuel system and filters.

3- Next Griffin dual 900 ( G900DM - MA ) 10 micron ( same as the Racor 900 only more $$$)
The Racor 900 can have an intergral priming pump built in ( extra $$$ )
4- Next the Racor Dual 500 ( 10 micron )

If I read this correctly you propose two dual filter systems? This is where it seems like overkill. I think a single, dual/switchable filter should be adequate. If you anticipate frequent fueling in areas with bad fuel and feel the serious need for more redundancy why not parallel two dual filter systems.

5- Next the Racor Spin on Series 230R, comes with built in priming pump ( 2 micron )

Does my system look ok ?

Question : FIRST IN LINE FILTER, better to use the more expensive Racor 900 available with the built in Priming Pump and be able to bleed all the filters between this filter and the engine.
The Griffin filters are a much lower price. But the Racor 900 with the ability to add the built in Priming Pump seems like a very attrictive option.
What say you experienced Cruisers.

Thank you.
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Old 17-09-2013, 16:44   #105
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Re: Primary Diesel Filter/Water Separator Recommendation

This old chestnut of fuel filters keeps on coming up and many people just can't see the wood for the trees. Many fit very expensive fuel polishing/filtration systems and it's simply more onboard systems to go wrong.
First and foremost clean out your fuel tanks and fit a sump drain tap at the bottom. Many are difficult to access but if a man put it in, a man can take it out again. Diesel engines when running return unused filtered fuel back to the tank via the return line and in effect they are constantly filtering the fuel so costly polishing systems are just a complete waste of your hard earned money.
I highly recommend fitting a non return valve at the tank outlet, a Caterpillar primary fuel/water separator, change the old Perkins sandwich type CAV fuel filter to a 'spin on' canister type, fit a button pump on the engine fuel filter intake line. In operation. Drain the fuel tank sump valve weekly, this will remove any water/condensation, diesel bug can't grow as there's no moisture interface for it to grow on, plus any sediment will drain off. If you follow my advice you will NEVER have blocked filters or diesel bug and it's possible to change filters without bleeding the system with a little practical experience and common sense. The 'spin on filter head conversion and button pump can be purchased cheaply from ASAP supplies.com and you can get filters practically the world over from any plant/machinery/tractor dealer.
Does it work ? yes, I cruised from Ireland with single Perkins 4236, crossed the Irish sea in a Force 6/7 and down to the Med on the same set of filters.
What more proof do you need.
I hope this helps to see the practical, proven way to set up your simple efficient fuel system. K.I.S.S and your money in your pocket, not some fancy sales guy on commission.
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