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Old 12-06-2013, 14:53   #31
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Re: Primary diesel filter/water separator recommendation

Diesel mechanics exam question.

Primary filter
Secondary filter.

Arrange these in order (the use of calculators is permitted)
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Old 12-06-2013, 15:16   #32
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Re: Primary diesel filter/water separator recommendation

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
Diesel mechanics exam question.

Primary filter
Secondary filter.

Arrange these in order (the use of calculators is permitted)
I must need a new calculator as I can not find the filter button. Is it a function of some other button combo.

I hate all this new age crap
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Old 12-06-2013, 15:28   #33
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Re: Primary diesel filter/water separator recommendation

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
Diesel mechanics exam question.

Primary filter
Secondary filter.

Arrange these in order (the use of calculators is permitted)

It's not which is first and which is second. It's which is primary and which is secondary. Different question. There would be no other filter if it were not for the engine and it's filter. So from that standpoint the engine filter is #1
However, I will forever refer to the great big filter as the Primary filter even though I 'm not sure of the logic.
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Old 12-06-2013, 15:38   #34
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Re: Primary diesel filter/water separator recommendation

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Originally Posted by Guy View Post
It's not which is first and which is second. It's which is primary and which is secondary. Different question. There would be no other filter if it were not for the engine and it's filter. So from that standpoint the engine filter is #1
However, I will forever refer to the great big filter as the Primary filter even though I 'm not sure of the logic.
Sorry Guy just a little joke, but it does make sense the fuel flow is from the tank to the engine. The first filter the fuel hits is the primary, or first, filter. The fuel then moves on and filtered by the second, or secondary, filter and from there into the high pressure pump and the cylinders.

Like the other posters I have never heard of anyone referring to it the other way around.
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Old 12-06-2013, 17:08   #35
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I went unconventional. Put a large surface 2 micron filter in a racor 1000 fh. Some folks pitch a fit about this. Why the 2 micron as a first filter. It catches everything. If I get crap passed that while changing filters the engine 10 micron catches it. Put a vac gauge on so I can see if it funks up before I need to worry.
It has been very effective at water removal 2 times I have found water in the bowl.
Cleaned 1 tank and replaced the other about 7 years ago. Couple thousand miles and it seems fine. If I didn't go this route I would have gone dual 500 series. I use an old 500 series to polish with a mobile rack on rare occasion. It has never found any contaminant. So do that about every 2years. I probably refresh all the fuel in a year to a year and a half. Trying to paint a broad picture of use with this set up.
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Old 12-06-2013, 17:56   #36
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Re: Primary diesel filter/water separator recommendation

I've also heard the engine mounted filter referred to as the primary, since it *could* be the only one in the system. Taking the route of fuel, it makes sense to call the first one in line (we call it a water separator on tractors) the primary.

Doubt it will hurt anything to have a 2 micron followed by a 10, but it doesn't follow convention that assumes the two filters work in tandem, with filtration increased as it moves through the system.

Do people with vacuum gauges find them accurate and useful, or just another thing to spend money on to sleep well at night? Curious how dynamic the gauges are and if minor contaminations can be handled by monitoring gauge?
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Old 12-06-2013, 18:12   #37
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Re: Primary diesel filter/water separator recommendation

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I went unconventional. Put a large surface 2 micron filter in a racor 1000 fh. Some folks pitch a fit about this. Why the 2 micron as a first filter. It catches everything. .
The Raycor 1000 is a very large filter for a 44 foot boat, but if you have the room this much larger filter has a greater capacity before clogging than the 500 series which would usually be fitted on this sized boat.
Roughly speaking the 900 Raycor filter has the equivalent capacity as X5, 500 filters and the 1000 has X10 the capacity.
Dual filters provide a useful warning, but its worth noting that you would have to have changed 10 Raycor 500 filters for each 1000 filter that was blocked.

Disel bug problems are becoming common, and I think there is an advantage in fitting large, preferably dual, filters.
The extra cost of the larger filter housings is not great and the disposable filters are cheaper in the larger size, given their greater capacity.

More importantly carring 4-5 extra filters for a long voyage is the equivalent of 20-25, smaller 500 filters.

With the increasing use of biodiesel. It is time to rethink our engines filtration system. The use the use of large capacity (before they will clog) dual filters, with a fuel polishing system is highly desirable for a cruising boat.

There has been a steep rise in fuel related problems over the last few years.
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Old 12-06-2013, 18:21   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
The Raycor 1000 is a very large filter for a 44 foot boat, but if you have the room this much larger filter has a much greater capacity before clogging than the 500 series which would usually be fitted on this sized boat.
Roughly speaking the 900 Raycor filter has the equivalent capacity as X5, 500 filters and the 1000 has X10 the capacity.
Dual filters provide a useful warning, but its worth noting that you would have to have changed 10 Raycor 500 filters for each 1000 filter that was blocked.

Disel bug problems are becoming common, and I think there is an advantage in fitting large, preferably dual, filters.
The extra cost of the larger filter housings is not great and the disposable filters are cheaper in the larger size, given their greater capacity.

More importantly carring 4-5 extra filters for a long voyage is the equivalent of 20-25, smaller 500 filters.

With the increasing use of biodiesel I think its time to rethink our engines filtration system and I think the use the use of as large large capacity as possible (before they will clog) dual filters, with a fuel polishing system is highly desirable for a cruising boat.

There has been a steep rise in fuel related problems over the last few years.
I tried to give a complete picture. Use of boat tank age etc... I also am adamant about an additive when adding fuel. Cost has some play as does layout. I would love to put a second bypass 500 filter in line but it seems excessive given the vac gauge.
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Old 12-06-2013, 18:23   #39
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Re: Primary diesel filter/water separator recommendation

Noelex 77

You last statement in your post totally says it all... I'm a firm believer in stopping a situation BEFORE it causes a problem... think of plugging a filter in a heavy seas! The pitching and rolling within the confined space of a hot engineering space isn't my cup of tea.

I vote for Noelex 77 response...

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Old 12-06-2013, 18:28   #40
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Noelex gets my thumbs . I think I'm okay with what I did but next go around in talking him up on the subject.
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Old 12-06-2013, 18:30   #41
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Re: Primary diesel filter/water separator recommendation

Would you consider stocking an second VACUUM GAUGE for that filter? I seen gauges go to heck for no reason at all.. without warning. I believe the ideal situation is to have as many backup plans and equipment for "Murphy's Law" especially if your cruising away from home...

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Old 12-06-2013, 18:48   #42
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Re: Primary diesel filter/water separator recommendation

Had a situation this spring coming back from the Bahamas where the engine mounted (I call it the secondary as that's what Mack Boring calls it) Yanmar filter clogged. The pressure gauge on the dual racors read barely into the yellow. I changed one of the racors and it was not nearly dirty enough to be a problem. It was very confusing. I didn't really know that it was the secondary until after we limped into Port Canaveral at low RPM and sail and I was able to change it.

I can only assume that the fuel I picked up in the Bahamas could get past the Racors but was caught by the Yanmar OEM secondary (4JH4 engine). Any other ideas?

It's very hard to change the secondary at sea on my boat. I'm thinking of going to 2 micron in the Racors to avoid this fun in the future.
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Old 12-06-2013, 22:15   #43
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Re: Primary diesel filter/water separator recommendation

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It's very hard to change the secondary at sea on my boat. I'm thinking of going to 2 micron in the Racors to avoid this fun in the future.
You do know filter housings/mountings can be relocated/moved to make them more accessible!
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Old 13-06-2013, 05:01   #44
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Re: Primary diesel filter/water separator recommendation

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To be clear, the small filter attached to the engine is the primary filter, the hopefully larger inline filter is the secondary filter.

No, it's the other way. The primary (first) filter in the fuel line running from the tank is off-engine; the secondary (second filter in line) is usually on engine.

-Chris

Edit: Ah. I see now that it's already been addressed...
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Old 13-06-2013, 06:42   #45
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I would caution about using very large Racors . The turbine actions requires a certain fuel velocity. In a very large filter with low flows typical of small yacht engines Id question the advice to fit very oversized units. Racor spec gives the flow rate specs.


Personally I'd be a fan of not having any engine mounted filters and doing all filtration of the engine

And like the others filter terminology always follows flow direction.

I see no merit in having a very fine 2micron filter as primary. Best spread the filtration over the available set of filters.( if you have a 2 micron primary what's the point of the secondary )

Dave
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