Predatory Volvo Parts Pricing

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by rwidman

Until one rusts through or bursts and lets all the oil out of your engine.

I haven't heard of Fram doing it in cars, which get so much more running time than any boat ever will, why would they start now? I'm sure any of the mechanics I've known in the past 35 or so years of driving would have warned me about Fram by now.

[Scout 30]

Personally, I can relate to the OP. When the oil cooler on my 2003t dissolved due to it's poor design I found out the replacement part is over $1700. That's not a typo. I bought a replacement with cupro-nickel tubes & a built in zinc for $120. Replacing the turbocharger, oil cooler & heat exchanger on this engine with Volvo parts would cost almost as much as a new engine. I think it would be great if this thread could get back on track & help create a database of affordable alternatives to OEM parts. Lenco Coolers - marine heat exchangers, marine oil coolers

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by rwidman

Until one rusts through or bursts and lets all the oil out of your engine.

Ron, quoting rumours like this to a chap who has happily and successfully been using the product is a bit silly, don't you think? Why should he believe you?

They may not be the best filters around, I don't have the knowledge to judge, but to imply widespread catastrophic failure without some reference seems unwarranted IMO.

Jim

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Ron, quoting rumours like this to a chap who has happily and successfully been using the product is a bit silly, don't you think? Why should he believe you?

They may not be the best filters around, I don't have the knowledge to judge, but to imply widespread catastrophic failure without some reference seems unwarranted IMO.

Jim

I wouldn't sweat a put down like that. The guy who advised me on this issue and was with me when buying the filter has probably more marine experience than 99% of posters on this forum.

It's all about cost-benefit calculation. And personally I am the type of person who'd rather accept "good enough" and go ahead than strive for perfection and stay behind.

[bcboomer]

There was a fellow who went to a lot of trouble to analyse a bunch of different filters. His results can be found here:
Opinions and Recommendations - Oil Filters Revealed - MiniMopar Resources

I don't know if the info is current enough to be gospel but, after reading it, I stopped buying Fram for myself or my customers.
I haven't personally seen proven problems with them but I have seen Canadian Tire filters fail catastrophically. There are probably newer comparisons out there but I'll stick to Wix wherever possible.

[Jim Cate]

Back in about 1987 I bought a couple of Mexican oil filters (can't remember the actual brand name) in La Paz. Looked just like the various American ones that I was used to. The seal between the can and the engine block looked a bit odd... kinda wavy. Silly, inexperienced me... put it on, and a few days and engine hours later it blew out, dumping all the oil into the bilge. Not nice at all. We were at Isla Isabella, a bird sanctuary, not the best ever place to get rid of about three rolls of oil soaked paper towels! Threw the other filter away without repeating the experiment!. So, yeah, I believe that there can be really bad oil filters.

ON the other hand, I have used Fram filters for years with never a failure, so it is hard to believe that they are all that bad. Don't use them these days because they are not sold here in Oz AFAIK... plenty of others available and I don't obsess about the type. Why? Because it is very seldom that a marine diesel WEARS out. Corrosion, gasket failure, overheating damage, cracking pistons... all these things take their toll, but the kind of wear related to poorly filtered oil is seldom a big player in engine death.

So, Ron, if you think that use of Fram filters is a bad idea, fine by me. But to suggest that they are really likely to blow out or rust through just because they are Frams is hard to support.

Anyhow, each to their own. If buying special branded filters makes you happy, have at it. Your engine will be happy to have familiar parts screwed into it!

Jim

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

I haven't heard of Fram doing it in cars, which get so much more running time than any boat ever will, why would they start now? I'm sure any of the mechanics I've known in the past 35 or so years of driving would have warned me about Fram by now.

By all means, continue using your $3.49 Fram filters from Walmart. It makes no difference to me.

Or - look on the Internet for oil filter testing and reviews. For me, figuring my engine is worth $25K (more or less), I try to go with the quality stuff for only a couple dollars more.

There are times and places to cheap out and times and places to bite the bullet and pay the man.

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Debating the relative merits of captialism and Marxism is way beyond the scope of this thread, but if you feel philosophically obligated to pay 600% over retail market value for a starter, or any other part, let me know...I'll be happy to provide the value-added service of quelling your sociopolitical angst at those rates. Free shipping included! ;-)

B,
The merits of Capitalism/Marxism is everything about this thread. If you believe in a free market, there is no such thing as "predatory pricing," only selling a product for what the market dictates. I have never bought anything that would be considered "junk" in my life since I believe in the quality principle. And, price is a good indicator of quality as in the example of Chinese vs. German bearings mentioned earlier. I can assure you, German and junk never go together in the same sentence. You cannot say that about Chinese products. So, if vendor A has a better price than vendor B and quality is comparable--spend your dollars with the latter. If price is more important than quality, understand what you have purchased and consider it so. But, in a free market, you only get what you pay for. There is an old saying I think of everytime I make a purchase: If you want nice fresh oats for your horse, you must pay a fair price. However, if you're satisfied with the oats after they've been eaten by the horse . . . now that's a different matter. Finally, in regards to my "sociopolitical angst," I would only comment that it is amazing to me that some people cannot see the connection between a successful society and free market capitalism. If we didn't have capitalists, no one would have jobs and the government could not exist. It's profit that allows them to exist. The world today is drowning in people who don't understand even the most basic economic principles that create and drive societies . . .but, that is another chapter. Good luck and good sailing.

[brantleychuck]

I'm a big Beta fan. Why? I've done two repowers using a beta 37.5 and a 60 . My first repower was almost ten years ago. My second one was last year. Getting info and advise out of the NC main distributor always been top notch and easily accessed. They happily supported any questions I had about my 8 year old engine, they handled it like I just bought it. They will provide you with cross reference numbers for filters and pump impellers. The Johnson water pump">raw water pump has the Johnson name and serial number on the cover plate. They encourage going to your local kubota tractor dealer for any non marine parts.
On my first boat I added a second alternator , DIY. I ended up cracking a couple factory brackets over time, my fault. I sort of assumed they would ask for a arm and leg for the special brackets and was thinking I could make them myself. I called for a price just to make myself feel better about the work I was about to do. I ended up ordering them as the price was very reasonable and they had them in stock.
The only parts I ever needed to replace were related to my #2 alternator install. No starters ,alternators. Nothing except filters and impellers . On that first engine I had a 100 amp alternator driven by a serpentine belt, a tiny little thing. I had 12 / 6 volt golf cart battery's for my bank. That poor thing should have gave up the first year out, the red paint on it got darker over time due to heat but the thing kept putting out. I called stanly at beta about carrying a spare. He told me who made the thing and had one In stock as well, there price was about double what you could get off the internet .
Both my boats had great access to the engine, lucky I know. I could easily change the oil, oil filter ,fuel filter and impeller in 30 minutes and with no mess using the supplied engine oil change pump. I have no affiliation with beta other than purchasing the 2 engines. Just a happy customer.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Scout 30]

The reason people are irritated is that this is not a free market, it's a captive market. Once you own one of these diesels you are stuck buying parts from Volvo unless you can find another source which is difficult at best.

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by Scout 30

The reason people are irritated is that this is not a free market, it's a captive market. Once you own one of these diesels you are stuck buying parts from Volvo unless you can find another source which is difficult at best.

Scout,
Buying a boat is a choice, not a mandate. When you buy a boat, you must accept that maintenance is a part of boat ownership. If you don't like what it costs to maintain your boat, sell it and buy another boat that is less costly to maintain--say perhaps a smaller vessel with an outboard motor. I find it amazing how people buy boats from the tens of thousands of dollars to the hundreds of thousands of dollars and expect people to feel sorry for them when they have to spend money to maintain their vessel. Do you feel the same way about your personal vehicle you drive everyday? Maybe that should be cheaper to maintain as well. So, it is only a captive market because you chose to buy a boat--a luxury that the majority of people worldwide could not afford. And you want us to feel sorry for you? This is patently absurd. The baby that cries gets the milk? Not in this case! Good luck and good sailing.

[Scout 30]

Rognvald (troll): I'm not sure why you are attacking me personally & I certainly am not looking for sympathy. Pretty big leap there. Warning people about problems with a particular brand of marine diesel is a designed function of a boating forum & is helpful not only to owners of that brand but anyone considering buying a boat with that brand of motor. Berating people sharing information is not just mean spirited, it's counterproductive.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by bcboomer

There was a fellow who went to a lot of trouble to analyse a bunch of different filters. His results can be found here:
Opinions and Recommendations - Oil Filters Revealed - MiniMopar Resources

I don't know if the info is current enough to be gospel but, after reading it, I stopped buying Fram for myself or my customers.
I haven't personally seen proven problems with them but I have seen Canadian Tire filters fail catastrophically. There are probably newer comparisons out there but I'll stick to Wix wherever possible.

That's the point I was trying to make. Check Internet testing and reviews. Apparently, some folks though I made this stuff up on my own.

I don't know why I bother.

[colemj]

Originally Posted by Scout 30

The reason people are irritated is that this is not a free market, it's a captive market. Once you own one of these diesels you are stuck buying parts from Volvo unless you can find another source which is difficult at best.

This is no different for Yanmar, Westerbeke, Nanni, etc. It isn't a Volvo thing.

Mark

[kismet]

Originally Posted by jep17

I had the same experience last summer. Volvo wanted $2,000.00 for a 12v starter for my Volvo 2002. I cross referenced the starter twice and found it locally for $86.00.

No more Volvo in my future, even though I'm loving the current Volvo Ocean Race.

S/V Whalewind
Nonsuch 30C #16



Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

I have the 2003T engine that has the same starter. It is a Valeo starter. Be careful of the very cheap China substitutes as important parts are not marine grade such as brush holders. These will turn to rust dust in short order. Better gear will have brass internals or even plastic. I know.