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Old 20-01-2015, 21:21   #121
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Re: Predatory Volvo Parts Pricing

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Mate, I think that you have done well for yourself and for the forum (by once again bringing this subject to the fore). Once one strips out all the socio/politico/economics 101 BS from the thread, there is a lot of useful info, and support for those who dislike paying OEM prices for repair and maintenance bits.

Well done, and long may the starter spin on demand!

Jim
Thanks. Glad you liked it and hope it may prove useful to others.
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Old 20-01-2015, 21:21   #122
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Re: Predatory Volvo Parts Pricing

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" think Balzac said it best that "Behind every great fortune is a great crime". Of course those closer to such fortunes will forever dispute and deny this. " Island Time

Let us not forget that the great French novelist failed in the legal profession and repeatedly in numerous unsuccessful business ventures in his life. He lived constantly in debt. He wrote, like Dickens, about the common man of his times. As a novelist, he is one of the most prodigious talents in the history of world literature. As a businessman, a failure. Austrian novelist Stefan Zweig wrote the best and most accurate biography of his life. Rognvald
Have you ever considered that may this was a direct result of his honesty? I've known quite a few attorneys and businesmen here in US who have not succeeded in their profession precisely for that reason.
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Old 21-01-2015, 07:26   #123
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Re: Predatory Volvo Parts Pricing

This thread reminds me of the man who goes to the feed store for a bag of oats. The salesman tells him he can buy a bag of oats for ten dollars or for two dollars. The man asks the salesman what the difference is. The salesman replies "The ten dollar bag of oats hasn't been through the horse yet."
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Old 21-01-2015, 07:36   #124
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Re: Predatory Volvo Parts Pricing

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Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
This thread reminds me of the man who goes to the feed store for a bag of oats. The salesman tells him he can buy a bag of oats for ten dollars or for two dollars. The man asks the salesman what the difference is. The salesman replies "The ten dollar bag of oats hasn't been through the horse yet."
Another version.

One can go to the tack store that caters to the country gentlemen that keep a stable of expensive horses as a hobby and don't care if they pay $10 for a bag of oats. Or go to the local feed and seed that sells to the local farmers who work for a living, know the value of a dollar and buy that exact same bag of oats for $2.
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Old 21-01-2015, 08:11   #125
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Re: Predatory Volvo Parts Pricing

And in another version you can go to the tack store & get the Swedish bag of oats for $37 a bag.
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Old 21-01-2015, 08:20   #126
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Re: Predatory Volvo Parts Pricing

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Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
This thread reminds me of the man who goes to the feed store for a bag of oats. The salesman tells him he can buy a bag of oats for ten dollars or for two dollars. The man asks the salesman what the difference is. The salesman replies "The ten dollar bag of oats hasn't been through the horse yet."
Cute, but not relevant. I'm talking about exactly the same make and model of starter.

What value is that you perceive Volvo adds for almost a 700% markup on exactly the same product?
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Old 21-01-2015, 08:22   #127
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Re: Predatory Volvo Parts Pricing

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And in another version you can go to the tack store & get the Swedish bag of oats for $37 a bag.
Or $70 if they follow the Volvo model.
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Old 21-01-2015, 08:25   #128
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Re: Predatory Volvo Parts Pricing

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Cute, but not relevant. I'm talking about exactly the same make and model of starter.

What value is that you perceive Volvo adds for almost a 700% markup on exactly the same product?
First you have to prove that it is the exact product. Not similar, but the same product, made in the same factory to the same specifications.
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Old 21-01-2015, 09:52   #129
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Re: Predatory Volvo Parts Pricing

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First you have to prove that it is the exact product. Not similar, but the same product, made in the same factory to the same specifications.
My very first, literally very first, boat related purchase needed to be a green nav light as the one on the boat I acquired was cracked. So off I went to WM and was disappointed to see one for $29. Well I figured I need to suck it up and bought it. Before I had a chance to install it I happened to be in Walmart where identical light was selling for $12. I bought that one too. Now having two lights at hand I went back to WM to return theirs and showed the cashier both explaining the situation. The cashier was laughing saying he could not tell the difference so he just took the one closest to him. He scanned it for a return and gave me my $ back.

Now you want to tell me that the Walmart version was somehow inferior to WM's? Or that WM added $17's worth of value to it? C'mon...

PS These days I know better still. And buy things like that from the local boat junk yard for just a few bucks.
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Old 21-01-2015, 10:44   #130
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Re: Predatory Volvo Parts Pricing

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First you have to prove that it is the exact product. Not similar, but the same product, made in the same factory to the same specifications.
I dont have to do jack....prove to me that Volvo doesn't sell Chinese knock-offs too.

After all, the objective if unbridled capitalism is to maximize profits so why would they not? Almost everything else they sell is "fake" in that all they do is spray paint it green and jack up the price, so it fits right in.

The starter I purchased has exactly the same brand name, model number, markings and dimensions. Even partially diassambled to compare the internals...same. No visible qualitative differences. A perfect match to the possible Chinese knock off Volvo "original".
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Old 21-01-2015, 12:00   #131
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Re: Predatory Volvo Parts Pricing

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First you have to prove that it is the exact product. Not similar, but the same product, made in the same factory to the same specifications.
In my case I did confirm that I was buying the exact same parts as sold by Westerbeke. Not a Chinese knockoff, not a copy, the exact parts from the same manufacturer and not made to upgraded specs.

Needed the impellor section of the fresh water pump. In the Westerbeke W58 the fresh water pump is in two parts, the housing and a metal impellor section that includes the shaft all the seals and such. So you can just swap out the guts and have a new water pump.

Cheapest deal I found on a genuine Westerbeke was $230 if I recall. A like research I determined the W58 is nothing but a Perkins 4.154 series 200 painted red and rebranded. All the basic parts come from Perkins except a few of the marine add ons like the heat exchanger, etc. I found a genuine Perkins water pump impellor section for $90 delivered from an authorized Perkins dealer.

Same with the raw water pump. Westerbeke uses a standard off the shelf Sherwood pump. From Westerbeke list price $748.95. Discount "deals" over $600. The exact same pump from a Sherwood pump distributor I paid under $250.

In the case of the fresh water pump, that is a part specific to the engine so I could see justification for additional markup for stocking a special part. But Westerbeke doesn't make it and really wouldn't have to keep them in a warehouse but buy them from Perkins when needed.

On the other hand the Sherwood raw water pump. $748.95 for a pump that they would buy from Sherwood as needed and ship it to the customer and mark it up over $300.
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Old 21-01-2015, 12:10   #132
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Re: Predatory Volvo Parts Pricing

Here's another "marine markup" example.

Am rebuilding the 30 year old Groco heads. The hinge on the toilet seat on one is broken. Checked and the hinges are identical to regular home toilet hinges so plan A, remove the old hinges and replace with new from Home Depot. However the old hinges were installed with steel screws that are rusted in place. Plan B, just buy a new toilet seat since Groco still makes the same model.

Discount online for a Groco part around $60. For a toilet seat! I could buy a home version, solid cherry designer toilet seat for that money.

So looked at the old and found the manufacturers name under the lid. Brand new, exact same as the original from the original manufacturer $12.50. I found two open box on sale for $12 and change delivered. So two new toilet seat from the same OEM $25 or from marine suppliers $125.

I will spend an extra dollar on SS screws to replace the standard steel ones in the replacements.
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Old 21-01-2015, 18:21   #133
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Re: Predatory Volvo Parts Pricing

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Originally Posted by Island Time O25 View Post
My very first, literally very first, boat related purchase needed to be a green nav light as the one on the boat I acquired was cracked. So off I went to WM and was disappointed to see one for $29. Well I figured I need to suck it up and bought it. Before I had a chance to install it I happened to be in Walmart where identical light was selling for $12. I bought that one too. Now having two lights at hand I went back to WM to return theirs and showed the cashier both explaining the situation. The cashier was laughing saying he could not tell the difference so he just took the one closest to him. He scanned it for a return and gave me my $ back.

Now you want to tell me that the Walmart version was somehow inferior to WM's? Or that WM added $17's worth of value to it? C'mon...

PS These days I know better still. And buy things like that from the local boat junk yard for just a few bucks.
You are taking my post out of context. My post was to the poster claiming that he could buy the same parts that Volvo sells for 80% less than Volvo sells them for. An identical starter made by the same factory to the same specs.

We all know (I hope) that West Marine's prices are sometimes higher than other retailers, especially Walmart's for items carried by Walmart. That's not really the subject of this thread unless your intent is to drift the thread a bit. I buy my Shell Rotella oil at Walmart for $13 per gallon while West Marine charges about $24 for the same oil. I saw it in a marina store once for $38!
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Old 21-01-2015, 19:31   #134
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Re: Predatory Volvo Parts Pricing

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You are taking my post out of context. My post was to the poster claiming that he could buy the same parts that Volvo sells for 80% less than Volvo sells them for. An identical starter made by the same factory to the same specs.
...
The starter is built by Mitsubishi and is readily available from many reputable auto parts dealers for many times more than 80% less.

Your premise is that some how the one sold by Volvo is qualitatively better. I've found absolutely nothing that supports that claim. I challenge you to prove that there is any difference whatsoever between those and the ones sold by Volvo. You are repeatedly making this claim so prove it.
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Old 21-01-2015, 21:31   #135
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Re: Predatory Volvo Parts Pricing

What some are doing here is assuming the genuine article ,in this case a starter,say branded Volvo but is really is a repainted Mitso unit is not actually Chinese.
It very possibly is Chinese and may be made by the same company that also sells knock off Mitso units or by the factory newly opened by a former worker from the original plant that made the genuine Mitso units .
Anyone who wants to know how it really works over there I recommend you read this..read it anyway its quite funny but unfortunately very true.

http://www.amazon.com/Mr-China-Memoi.../dp/0060761407
Chris
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