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Old 20-01-2015, 13:33   #106
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Re: Predatory Volvo Parts Pricing

I want to tell you , I'm not at the top of my business, but close enough to see what is going on.
Only surprising thing is more don't go to jail than do, call it what you want, but (most not all) is run by greed, pure and simple. Oh, they will make any noises you want to hear if they think it will make them money, but don't let a lie stand between them and a Dollar.

There are a few well run business, by honest people, but they are the exception.
The whole thing has left a very bad taste in my mouth as the liers and thieves get ahead and call themselves Businessmen, it's just Business after all.
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Old 20-01-2015, 13:50   #107
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Re: Predatory Volvo Parts Pricing

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Both of those companies were led by people who have well-documented, and legendary, accounts of starting their companies through acts of dishonesty.

Mark

Mark,
I would swear on my grandmother's rosary(she was Lutheran, you know), that you have an excellent sense of sarcasm and wit. I would be disappointed if that were not the case. Good luck and good sailing. R
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Old 20-01-2015, 14:16   #108
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Re: Predatory Volvo Parts Pricing

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Bill,
Since the beginning of Man, there are some who achieve more economic success in life than others. This is a given. It creates levels of society based upon income that shape and control people's choices and philosophy concerning money, wealth and how it is obtained. When families over generations have been reared in ,say, Working Class and Middle Class environments, they generally purport the views expressed by their parents and the community in which they reside. This is simply a process of culturization which has lasting effects on most people's psyches. Typical of Working/Middle Class people is a general mistrust of those with wealth and the belief that no one can achieve success without being dishonest. It is a rationalization for their own inability to achieve wealth at a desired level and therefore since they cannot achieve it, those who do must be dishonest. So, when you say that free markets mean that "they(CEO's) want to be able to rob you without getting arrested," you exemplify the class conflict described above. Do you think the genius behind Microsoft's success was a result of dishonesty? What about Apple? How about Samsung? And of course one of the wealthiest corporations in the world that is "non profit"--Bosch? It is simply naÔve to believe that none of their success had to do with "building a better widget" ,as the above examples clearly illustrate, and the aggressive marketing they represent within the parameters of the free market system. But, when class conflicts rear their ugly heads, they resort to the tired old mantras of the evil capitalist and the honest working man cliche. So,Bill, when you say that businesses "hate free markets" you not only reveal your class consciousness and bias but also show your lack of knowledge about how successful businesses really work. It's just not like Mom and Dad told you. Good luck, good sailing and Long Live Capitalism! Captain Rognvald
Since you didn't answer my question about working for a large corporation I'll assume that you didn't and you haven't got a clue what you are talking about. Both Microsoft and Apple were established with the benefit of well documented dishonest acts. Do I begrudge Bill Gates his fortune, not one bit, the late Steve Jobs, either. If you think that either of them liked a free market, you don't understand them at all. I have worked in very successful businesses and have even known a few CEOs who were honest, but they didn't last and were replaced by more dubious individuals who did very well for themselves. The businesses didn't always do that well, but they did. I have no desire to be as rich as Bill Gates or Steve Jobs, but I did well enough and made millions for the companies I worked for and do not apologize for doing so. It seems to me that you are simply saying that the wealthy don't have to be governed by the moral standards that most of us live by. I completely agree with you, they don't, but that does not make them honest, It just means that they are not held accountable whereas people of lesser means would end up in jail. Not liking free markets is not a crime, only achieving a monopoly is a crime, but liking them is not and it is not inherently dishonest either. I'm sure there are many honest people who have become quite wealthy through building and selling better widgets, inventing new widgets, etc. But if you are going to try to give examples you should pick individuals whose duplicitous exploits are not so well known.

You might also note that I never said I didn't benefit financially because some of the CEO's I worked for did their best to establish a monopoly, buy out competitors instead of out selling them or making a better product than they did, or making the right campaign contribution. I just don't have any delusions that they believed in a free market or operated in one.
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Old 20-01-2015, 15:06   #109
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Re: Predatory Volvo Parts Pricing

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Since you didn't answer my question about working for a large corporation I'll assume that you didn't and you haven't got a clue what you are talking about. Both Microsoft and Apple were established with the benefit of well documented dishonest acts. Do I begrudge Bill Gates his fortune, not one bit, the late Steve Jobs, either. If you think that either of them liked a free market, you don't understand them at all. I have worked in very successful businesses and have even known a few CEOs who were honest, but they didn't last and were replaced by more dubious individuals who did very well for themselves. The businesses didn't always do that well, but they did. I have no desire to be as rich as Bill Gates or Steve Jobs, but I did well enough and made millions for the companies I worked for and do not apologize for doing so. It seems to me that you are simply saying that the wealthy don't have to be governed by the moral standards that most of us live by. I completely agree with you, they don't, but that does not make them honest, It just means that they are not held accountable whereas people of lesser means would end up in jail. Not liking free markets is not a crime, only achieving a monopoly is a crime, but liking them is not and it is not inherently dishonest either. I'm sure there are many honest people who have become quite wealthy through building and selling better widgets, inventing new widgets, etc. But if you are going to try to give examples you should pick individuals whose duplicitous exploits are not so well known.

You might also note that I never said I didn't benefit financially because some of the CEO's I worked for did their best to establish a monopoly, buy out competitors instead of out selling them or making a better product than they did, or making the right campaign contribution. I just don't have any delusions that they believed in a free market or operated in one.

Bill,
So, if I told you that I was the CEO of a Fortune 500 company would that make my comments any more valid than if I ran a small corporation? Or, by your logic, if I was a sole entrepreneur of a small family business, would my knowledge of how things work be less valid? What about being an employee for a Fortune 500 company in upper management and not having a clue as to how the company is really run? Your logic/reasoning is a simple non-sequitur since A does not necessarily follow B. And, your inquiry into how I've made my living as a prerequisite to commenting/ knowing how business is run is disingenuous at best, especially since anyone can be anything on the internet. It is no one's business what anyone has done for a living unless you feel the need to parade your life to the masses. A list of credentials from a fool makes him nonetheless . . . a credentialed fool. It is also evident from your rant that you see things in black and white, good and evil, fair and unfair, honest and dishonest. That is your prerogative. You're a good cowboy, you wear a white hat, but, it is not the way the world works. Morality is subjective based upon culture, class and time. It changes constantly. It is not static. If you lived in the 9th Century in Scandinavia, you would be an honored member of your community for your ability to rob, kill, plunder and deceive those less able. Today, you would go to jail for these acts. It's a matter of time and perspective. Being in business is much like combat: the weak perish and the strong survive. It is one of the last frontiers where people who thrive on competition and challenge can impact their lives and those of their loved ones. And, many like Gates and Jobs are returning millions of their hard earned profits to help the world and humanity. You are either a Capitalist or not. There is no middle ground. And, by the way, why don't you tell me about Gates and Jobs and their dishonest acts. I really don't know what you mean. Good luck, good sailing, and in the famous words of Mao Tse Tung: You got another eggroll?
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Old 20-01-2015, 15:20   #110
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Re: Predatory Volvo Parts Pricing

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Both of those companies were led by people who have well-documented, and legendary, accounts of starting their companies through acts of dishonesty.

Mark
Not only that but even going back to the original Rockfeller literally ordering a hit knocking off his competition or Edison stealing/poaching thousands and thousands of patents and bribing SCOTUS justices to rule in his favor and burying in the process Tesla's forward thinking ideas and discoveries, most businesses got to the top of the heap by less than guiltless means. Not to mention such unfree market artificial leg up as patent and copyright law. But that's another story.

I think Balzac said it best that "Behind every great fortune is a great crime". Of course those closer to such fortunes will forever dispute and deny this.
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Old 20-01-2015, 15:25   #111
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Re: Predatory Volvo Parts Pricing

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And, by the way, why don't you tell me about Gates and Jobs and their dishonest acts.
This is old history and well-trod ground, but among the many accounts available (including those by the actual principles involved), Walter Isaacson sums these acts up well in his book "The Innovators: How a Group of Hackers, Geniuses, and Geeks Created the Digital Revolution".

You will also find accounts of William Shockley's dishonesty in setting up Shockley semiconductors, but those turned out bad for him.

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Old 20-01-2015, 15:28   #112
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Re: Predatory Volvo Parts Pricing

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Not only that but even going back to the original Rockfeller literally ordering a hit knocking off his competition or Edison stealing/poaching thousands and thousand of patents and bribing SCOTUS justices to rule in his favor and burying in the process Tesla's forward thinking ideas and discoveries, most businesses got to the top of the heap by less than guiltless means. Not to mention such unfree market artificial leg up as patent and copyright law. But that's another story.

I think Balzac said it best that "Behind every great fortune is a great crime". Of course those closer to such fortunes will forever dispute and deny this.
Yes, all of the above are good examples, but I was just referring to the specific two mentioned.

Steve Jobs himself was famous for his oft-repeated Picasso quote "good artists copy, but great artist steal".

Mark
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Old 20-01-2015, 15:59   #113
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Re: Predatory Volvo Parts Pricing

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
This is old history and well-trod ground, but among the many accounts available (including those by the actual principles involved), Walter Isaacson sums these acts up well in his book "The Innovators: How a Group of Hackers, Geniuses, and Geeks Created the Digital Revolution".

You will also find accounts of William Shockley's dishonesty in setting up Shockley semiconductors, but those turned out bad for him.

Mark
Mark,
As I have commented above, ethics are subjective. Not everyone lives as a priest . . . well, maybe that's a bad example. R
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Old 20-01-2015, 16:09   #114
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Re: Predatory Volvo Parts Pricing

And I thought this forum was about boats.


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Old 20-01-2015, 17:38   #115
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Re: Predatory Volvo Parts Pricing

" think Balzac said it best that "Behind every great fortune is a great crime". Of course those closer to such fortunes will forever dispute and deny this. " Island Time

Let us not forget that the great French novelist failed in the legal profession and repeatedly in numerous unsuccessful business ventures in his life. He lived constantly in debt. He wrote, like Dickens, about the common man of his times. As a novelist, he is one of the most prodigious talents in the history of world literature. As a businessman, a failure. Austrian novelist Stefan Zweig wrote the best and most accurate biography of his life. Rognvald
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Old 20-01-2015, 17:50   #116
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Re: Predatory Volvo Parts Pricing

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Hi Jon,

I have an Amsoil bypass filter that will eventually be installed in my boat. Any comments, suggestions or complaints?

For those that aren't familiar with them,a by pass filter is an ultrafine filter installed in parallel with the standard oil filter. Roughly 10% of the oil is diverted to the bypass filter as it flows through the system so after a relatively short time all the oil has been microfiltered. The issue is that to maintain oil pressure, full flow, etc any oil filter no matter what brand or quality, is limited in the minimum micron size it will filter. This will leave a lot of finer contaminants in the oil that will contribute significantly to engine wear hence the benefit of the ultrafine bypass filter. You can still maintain full oil flow rate and pressure but also get the ultrafine filtration of your oil.

For those interested reading a little more this is addressed in Nigel Calder's book where he says "they are worth considering as add on equipment."
So far, so good...

There's always the potential for a bit of 'imagination' coming into play after making such an upgrade, but I'm pretty sure my oil is staying a bit cleaner, a bit longer... Certainly no surprise, as the soot particles that quickly turn oil black in a diesel are of the size that can fall in between the micron rating difference between the full flow, and the bypass...

Here's an excellent read from Steve D'Antonio published in PASSAGEMAKER re bypass filtration... Click on the "Open Article' button to read:

PassageMaker - November/December 2012

Another big benefit of the upgrade for me, was greatly improving the ease of oil changes by the switch to a remote filter setup. The filter mount on my Perkins was horizontal, and in a very awkward spot in my particular installation. No matter what I did - puncturing the filter first in an effort to drain it into a ziploc and diaper, and so on - it invariably turned into a very messy procedure. Now, having vertically mounted filters separate from the engine, makes oil changes much easier, and more tidy.

One other thing I did as well, as I was a bit concerned with going with bypass filtration on an engine as small as mine (29 HP)... i definitely wanted to be able to monitor oil pressure as accurately as possible, and to be alerted to the slightest hint of a drop in pressure. So, I went with a mechanical gauge, the Murphy Swichgage... HIGHLY recommended, a very nice unit, and you eliminate those sending units threaded onto a vibrating engine block... Tied into an alarm buzzer, it's a big improvement over what I had earlier...

Pays to shop around, prices on these seem to be all over the place, I think I finally found mine for about $70, for the gauge alone... But a very worthwhile investment, for me...


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Old 20-01-2015, 18:53   #117
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Re: Predatory Volvo Parts Pricing

Just gonna jump in quickly here. I have the exact same problem with Yanmar parts. Stupid expensive, and I'm not allowed to buy them where I want. A turbo which is the same IHI turbo for a VW diesel is $2200 instead of $200.

So, anyone that wants to start a "Marine Diesel Parts Crossreference" website, I'm in, and I'll set it up. It would run $400 for the software, and $20 a month to host it. Uses the same software that's used here. OR, maybe we could talk CF into putting a separate section of the Forum together for it...
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Old 20-01-2015, 19:11   #118
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Re: Predatory Volvo Parts Pricing

Well, my modest little post has certainly generated some interesting and far reaching discussion. ;-)

But for me personally its all about getting good value, and good quality (not chino junk), for my dollar. The starter originally in question is available from many reputable sources at $130 - $230. Could some be Chinese knock-offs, perhaps, but this exact same starter is widely used in the automotive market and no auto supply house I've found prices it anywhere near Volvo price. For a $600 - $700 price diff for the exact same comodity its worthwhile for me to expend a little effort. The tangile value to me is a good working starter whether I pay $130 or $830. Donating the price spread to Volvo for zero value add simply does not make economic sense.

If Volvo sold a true marine grade starter (all non corrosive materials, water tight housing, high quality sealed bearings, life time guarantee to original owner...) then the tangible value of their starter might be worth $830, but they don't, its just a common automotive grade starter.

Today for example, I think I got good value for my dollar (only time will tell for sure so I will report back after a season or two). For a grand total of $150 I got a new starter and had the bad solenoid on my old one replaced (only the solenoid was bad, works like a champ now). The whole excursion took a couple of hours of my time (...and I didn't even get mugged in Colon...though I didn't waste any time between the taxi and the starter shop...ruff part of town). In the end I have a new starter, and a spare, for a fraction of Volvo price...and did not have to wait for parts to arrive and pay shipping and customs duties to add insult to injury.

Sure made my day.
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Old 20-01-2015, 20:43   #119
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Re: Predatory Volvo Parts Pricing

Quote:
Today for example, I think I got good value for my dollar (only time will tell for sure so I will report back after a season or two). For a grand total of $150 I got a new starter and had the bad solenoid on my old one replaced (only the solenoid was bad, works like a champ now). The whole excursion took a couple of hours of my time (...and I didn't even get mugged in Colon...though I didn't waste any time between the taxi and the starter shop...ruff part of town). In the end I have a new starter, and a spare, for a fraction of Volvo price...and did not have to wait for parts to arrive and pay shipping and customs duties to add insult to injury.
Mate, I think that you have done well for yourself and for the forum (by once again bringing this subject to the fore). Once one strips out all the socio/politico/economics 101 BS from the thread, there is a lot of useful info, and support for those who dislike paying OEM prices for repair and maintenance bits.

Well done, and long may the starter spin on demand!

Jim
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Old 20-01-2015, 21:20   #120
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Re: Predatory Volvo Parts Pricing

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Just gonna jump in quickly here. I have the exact same problem with Yanmar parts. Stupid expensive, and I'm not allowed to buy them where I want. A turbo which is the same IHI turbo for a VW diesel is $2200 instead of $200.

So, anyone that wants to start a "Marine Diesel Parts Crossreference" website, I'm in, and I'll set it up. It would run $400 for the software, and $20 a month to host it. Uses the same software that's used here. OR, maybe we could talk CF into putting a separate section of the Forum together for it...
Great idea to have as a CF resource I think. That and the ability to share other documents. Maybe just a link to Drop Box or similar would do. The cross reference could be as simple as a collaborative spreadsheet(s).

Either way, I'll chip in...gotta do something with that $700+ I saved today and it would be appropriate to contribute some of it to this.
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