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Old 08-11-2011, 17:46   #31
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Re: Pleased with Electric Propulsion

"Replace your current engine with one sized to push your boat at economy cruising speed (4-5kt), piggy back an electric motor system onto the propshaft. Add batteries, panels and controller. Now you have more oomph to get in and out on electric against a moderate current or a fair amount of wind, not a lot of oomph but more than the trolling motor. For long distance powering the diesel pushes you along operating at it's most economical load, and when you need a lot of push all at once the engine and motor run together, you just can't have that much power for long. This is the expensive option, figure $10k."
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I Like that idea!!!

Im scooting around town on an e-bike that runs 60 volt x 32 amps.

Goes about 50km at 50 kms per hour.

Great-no license,insurance -no gas or smell and costs about a quarter to charge up over night.

A friend says he can give me 60 v x 40 amp Life Fopo for about 1000 dollars with a BMS and 6 am charger.Would give me 100 km.Will do as soon as my SLA bricks die.

Love it and would like the option in a sailboat.

The feeling of turning a key and hitting the throttle with no noise is enjoyable and hard to explain till ya try it.

So...


Isn't a diesel which everyone already has with the electric motor used as an "auxiliary" for easy maneuvering around the docks-quietly and no stinkers- the best option for now until we have our hydrogen power-cell perpetual motor replacement for diesel?

I guess you would need a clutch system?and room to install?

Already having a generator on board would be huge plus too.

And at the end of the day -if-the diesel died you would have the electric

auxiliary as a backup.

That's the system I want to see and hear about.

Any one got one or know where I can look?

Cheers.

PS-any Govt incentives or tax breaks for going electric like in a Prius?
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Old 08-11-2011, 20:08   #32
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Re: Pleased with Electric Propulsion

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Originally Posted by LoveMyWoodie View Post
Isn't a diesel which everyone already has with the electric motor used as an "auxiliary" for easy maneuvering around the docks-quietly and no stinkers- the best option for now until we have our hydrogen power-cell perpetual motor replacement for diesel?

I guess you would need a clutch system?and room to install?

Already having a generator on board would be huge plus too.

And at the end of the day -if-the diesel died you would have the electric

auxiliary as a backup.

That's the system I want to see and hear about.

Any one got one or know where I can look?

Cheers.

PS-any Govt incentives or tax breaks for going electric like in a Prius?
In no particular order.

No tax breaks.

Hydrogen fuel cells are pie in the sky for at least another 2-4 generations (40-80yr), just like nuclear fusion reactors. The fuels cell technology may happen in the next 20yr but I wouldn't bet on it. The real problem with hydrogen is safety and delivery infrastructure.

I don't think you would need a clutch, letting the motor spin while running the engine would at most be a slight drag on the prop that would act to recharge the batteries. Room between the transmission of an existing engine and the stuffing box would be the bigger issue. Probably you could shoehorn everything in but you would wind up obstructing access to various things that need to be maintained like the stuffing box.

The Thoosa 6000 system will push a 33', 8000lb boat (light or ultralight) sailboat up to 5kt according to the AMSO website. (ASMO Marine) Prices are $7k for the 6000 model up to $14k for the 9000 model (50% more power) Models with regeneration capability probably cost a bit more.

My solution would involve installing what would normally be an undersized diesel like the Farymann 18W (Farymann Diesel :: North America) or the Betamarine 14 (14 Beta Marine US Ltd. Distributors for Kubota based marine diesel engines and generators for sailboats, yachts and trawler boats.) and an electric system like the Thoosa 6000 above. The smaller engines would probably give you a little more room for the electric system. I don't thing you would see any cost savings up front, but would see fuel savings in service from operating the engine at it's optimum speed and because some of the propulsive energy used would come from solar, wind, regen or shore power. Also there would be redundancy in propulsion methods. The downside to the system is that you wouldn't be able to motor at hull speed for extended periods.
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Old 09-11-2011, 04:51   #33
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Re: Pleased with Electric Propulsion

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Originally Posted by Adelie View Post
The current limitation on oomph in the motors is related to the batteries. They could install larger motors and get a lot more speed and push out of them but that would be facilitating abuse the batteries by users. The current generationn of motors seems to be tailored to stay within the limits of the currently available batteries. Bigger motors with current batteries could get you a lot more oomph at the cost of very short running times and higher motor weight. The motor weight isn't that big a deal, but the range and speed issues are for most people.
Ok, that makes sense

Quote:
A. Keep your engine, add an extra battery or 2, get a solar panel or 2 and use a trolling motor on an outboard bracket. All together this should be under $1k. This system will get you in and out of a marina or an anchorage in moderate weather with minimal current against you. If you need to go long distances or against a current you still have the engine.

B. Replace your current engine with one sized to push your boat at economy cruising speed (4-5kt), piggy back an electric motor system onto the propshaft. Add batteries, panels and controller. Now you have more oomph to get in and out on electric against a moderate current or a fair amount of wind, not a lot of oomph but more than the trolling motor. For long distance powering the diesel pushes you along operating at it's most economical load, and when you need a lot of push all at once the engine and motor run together, you just can't have that much power for long. This is the expensive option, figure $10k.
Not sure if those would be an answer for me...........

I like MBIANKA's suggestion of a simple Generator - I might not want to use the thing, but at least it gives me an option (and reassurance?)........so I don't end up like the Flying Dutchman, simply for want of an hours worth of "Ooomph". Over time as I get more comfortable with the Electric and knowledgable about what I can do (and can't!) then Generator use should drop.

Was also thinking about having a "Get me into port" Battery - isolated from the main batteries (as the Diesel Engine starting battery is from the House Batteries).......but a bit more mulling over required on that.

Anyway, cheers for all the responses - they have moved me along a bit
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Old 09-11-2011, 05:18   #34
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Re: Pleased with Electric Propulsion

.........and Plan B would be - drop the diesel engine back in
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Old 11-11-2011, 00:42   #35
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Re: Pleased with Electric Propulsion

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Genkosenator:

Yes, I have two 48 volt solar panels that also are part of my solar Bimini. Usually they will charge about 2% per day and that is with them partially covered by the boom. I'm not that anal to keep moving the boom to clear the panels completly. I know I would get more out of them if I did. I do like having the wind generator on board too as well as the Honda 2000. I like the three legged stool approach to charging.
2% per day?? To me that would be completely inadequate. Flooded batteries lose that much per day so I wouldn't even be breaking even. I get about 20% per day.

As far as fuel cells go. I looked into hydrogen. You can get the cells, that isn't the issue. The problem is storing the hydrogen. If you use scuba tanks, and pressurize hydrogen to 3000psi, you get roughly the same energy as lead acid batteries of the same size. Weight may well be lower, especially with carbon fiber tanks, but round trip efficiency is dismal, 25% is probably the best possible in a laboratory, and that does not include losses from pressurizing the gas which probably drop you to the 10-15% range. You can go up to 6000psi and get more capacity but again, even less efficiency. Cheap lead acid is 80% or better, lithium 93% or so. So imho hydrogen fuel cells are not really viable for solar powered systems unless you plan on anchoring for a month and motoring for a day.

There is also DMFC which are roughly twice as efficient as a honda generator. This seems much more promising, but a unit which outputs 600w is about $5000. This could be useful in addition to other sources to keep the batteries up. It is possible to have multiple units of course if you can afford it.

For now I use solar which is $1.75 a watt and dropping. This is pretty cheap and effective.

As far as having enough power.. it is easily possible to get an electric motor with the power of a diesel system. In fact, it is possible to get 100hp or more out of a 20lb electric motor for a minute or two. Electric motors are capable of huge amounts of power for their weight, but you would be murdering the batteries. I would like to have somewhere around 3-4hp instead of only 1, but I am working with what I got for free.

As far as controllers. It is nice to have a controller, but depending on use, you might not need one. I do not have controllers, I just have switches. One of the motors is twice as powerful as the other, so I get roughly 1/3rd 2/3rd and 1hp. If you have two or more motors, you can use just relays, and using on/off action in bursts as well to regulate it. A controller would be best though if you need to drive at partial power for long periods and want the higher efficiency of using a large propeller spinning slower, or using both motors at half speed (more efficient than 1 motor at full speed)
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