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Old 17-10-2018, 16:38   #1
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Please please Help Perkins!!

Hi guys I'm at the end of my tether and really was hoping to get my engine going but may have to consider getting another. I've asked mechanics and mates but no luck.. If anyone has ideas please share.

Engine: perkins 4.108

The symptom thus far is obvious and repeats, it starts (with a tiny squirt of easy start) and catches and revs like hell (started with full throttle) and dies quite quickly ( in less than a minute ). Im not an expert, but it sounds like a fuel problem as if being starved.


I have bled it more times than i can count,
Filter is new
opened lift pump and see no damage or block
have cracked hp feed to injectors and turned over - clear drips of fuel
have taken injectors out turned them upside down and cranked - good atomisation on two, a bit of a 'thicker' spray on the other two.


about two weeks ago i did have it running for about 2 minutes.

A bit of background : Its a 2009 rebuild. I've lived aboard for the last 3 years 2 of which the boat wasnt mine, in that time the engine was never started and I've heard that the previous owner hadnt started it either. When i began working on it it was quite difficult to turn by hand but I eventually got it and now it turns easily (despite a squeaking sound like rubber squeezing**). I cleaned the heat exchanger the fresh water pump and gave the sea water pump a new impeller. I found an old receipt (2014) form a diesel engineer saying that the injectors were serviced and the injector pump as well - that it was clogged with stale fuel. When bleeding I sheared the screw on the top of the pump on the governor/anti stall device - which i replaced incl. the anti stall device - currently not set (I've been told that this should not affect the running of the engine and that it is set after the idle is set, and that it prevents stall after sudden deceleration).

Another thing I noticed - the stop lever that is on the DPA injector pump when pulled, the one time i tried, did not stop the engine - i have made sure it is all the way to the run position - perhaps its stuck inside ?

** The squeak wasnt there before I accidentally flooded the block with sea water by cranking with the seacock open. I took the exhaust maifold off, the injectors out and turned over plenty of times, then poured about 300ml of oil down each injector hole and turned over many more times. I've had it start since that episode but again the same thing happens.

Thanks for any suggestions, after just being told that my I may need a whole new rig and mast I would love not to add an engine to the list !!

Cheers,
Dusty
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Old 17-10-2018, 16:57   #2
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Re: Please please Help Perkins!!

When you replaced the fuel filter did you remove the old rubber seal? They get caught up in the housing and won’t seal if doubled up. Sounds like air or possibly very old fuel. Start at the tank and work your way to the injectors checking every connection. Chances are the engines fine, might consider adding an inline fuel pump at this time ($30) to aide in trouble shooting.
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Old 17-10-2018, 17:03   #3
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Re: Please please Help Perkins!!

I did not remove the old seal as the new filter didnt come with a seal - but I had the same 'symptoms' before changing filters.

I have set up a jerry can above the engine with a feed an return line.
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Old 17-10-2018, 17:16   #4
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Re: Please please Help Perkins!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ny-vern View Post
I have set up a jerry can above the engine with a feed an return line.
That's a good start. I had a similar problem with the engine on my boat. Tried bleeding, tightening everything and no joy. If you have tried all the easy solutions and no joy the only sure method I have found is to go step by step from beginning to end of the fuel system.

Take your jerry jug (make sure the fuel is perfectly clean, no crud in the bottom of the jug) and feed the fuel directly to the final filter, the spin on mounted on the block, bypassing the initial water separator, lift pump, etc. Hopefully that will start and run the engine. If not then it could be in the final filter or lines from that filter to the engine or something more serious like the injector pump.

If that does start the engine then work your way back down the system, feeding fuel from the jerry jug farther upstream until you reach the point where it stops working. Then you've isolated the problem to a specific part of the system.
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Old 17-10-2018, 17:26   #5
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Re: Please please Help Perkins!!

Thanks,

So there currently is only one filter, after the lift pump - the non screw type that sits between a cup like bottom and top and is clamped in place with one long bolt through the centre. I haven't supplied fuel directly to the hard lines - perhaps that would be the next step.
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Old 17-10-2018, 17:37   #6
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Re: Please please Help Perkins!!

I just saw this the other day and you might like to try it. Watch out for the mother pig though. Also make sure your battery is fully charged and there are no large voltage drops between the battery and the starter.
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Old 17-10-2018, 17:50   #7
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Re: Please please Help Perkins!!

does the fuel cut-off work?

does it have power..sounds like it doesn't..


just a test..
you said it starts with starting fluid..what happens if you
squirt another shot as the engine is dying? does it rev back up? if so..you're

not getting fuel...filter is ok..and system bleed..but the cut-off working?


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Old 17-10-2018, 18:13   #8
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Re: Please please Help Perkins!!

Hi Ny-vern, If the engine starts and runs for a moment on starting fluid (ether) then it proves that mechanically the engine is O.K. Just a fuel (or lack of ) problem. As others have said start at one end and work to the other. My guess is a plug in the line or a good size air leak. If I remember correctly the DPA injection pump has an internal fine strainer inside where the fuel line connects to the pump. Over the years these can become blocked. Good luck and please let us know what you find.
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Old 17-10-2018, 18:22   #9
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Re: Please please Help Perkins!!

The easiest way to bleed is with an electric fuel pump instead of the lever on the stock lift pump. 4108 injectors rarely go bad. When they do usually putting new nozzles on usually solves the problem. Most injectors are just a spring loaded valve that opens under high pressure and closes before ignition so no debris or exhaust gases damage the valve.

Air in the injector line compresses, relieving the pressure needed to open the valve. Fuel compresses very little compared to air. So any air pocket in the injector lines gets smaller instead of pushing fuel into the engine.
If you've bled many times, you probably have air coming into the system. It can be anywhere in the fuel lines or your lift pump,too. The diaphragm can fail and draw in crankcase air, the gasket can fail and the valves can fail. An electric pump can solve all pump issues and they're about $20 on ebay including shipping. I have them on all my diesels for changing filters and bleeding the injector pump engines.

Be careful with ether. Use it sparingly. It causes extremely high pressures and commonly cracks rings when used too heavily. Don't run the engine on ether.
You don't say where you're at, but if it's cold, that could be part of the starting problem. Diesel needs about 500°F to fire. It gets that from compressing the intake air. The rings are probably bypassing some air. It's common for rings sitting a long time to contract and not seat again until the engine gets hot. In cold weather the engine may need heated air or a block heater. A hair dryer helps. Even an old engine can have an extended life with a block heater.
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Old 17-10-2018, 20:18   #10
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Re: Please please Help Perkins!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepFrz View Post
I just saw this the other day and you might like to try it. Watch out for the mother pig though. Also make sure your battery is fully charged and there are no large voltage drops between the battery and the starter.
We don't need no stinkin' ether...
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Old 17-10-2018, 22:39   #11
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Re: Please please Help Perkins!!

I bleed mine by blowing air into the vent tube from the tank
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Old 18-10-2018, 10:50   #12
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Re: Please please Help Perkins!!

You should have 2 fuel filters. The one you mention, prior to fuel getting to the engine, and another one ( 5 micron ) on the engine.
My guess is fuel pump not working properly or leak in fuel line ... air getting in it.
A Perkins mechanic might be in your future.
Best of luck.
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Old 18-10-2018, 11:03   #13
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Re: Please please Help Perkins!!

I had the darnedest problem starting a 4.108 after changing the fuel filter. It turned out to be the 2 ring seal problem mentioned above. If you installed a new filter, it should have come with a ring seal. Maybe remove the filter and seal and make sure you don't have air leakage there. My motorhead buddy never used ether, always recommended WD40. Ether can suck a valve with the explosive response.
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Old 18-10-2018, 11:15   #14
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Re: Please please Help Perkins!!

I have a 4-107. Two thoughts: I've read that a diesel will run on WD40 streamed into the air intake, though I haven't tried it. If that works, then fuel supply is your problem.
Also check the fuel lines. Rubber lines might collapse inside, steel lines might rust or clog.
Good luck, keep us posted.
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Old 18-10-2018, 15:28   #15
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Re: Please please Help Perkins!!

Just a though, have you checked the exhaust side of the engine? Exhaust mixer, flexible hose, water lock / muffler and outlet.
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