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Old 02-04-2013, 17:04   #46
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Re: Please let it not be the gearbox!

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Originally Posted by Mark1977 View Post
Yeah for me.... I will have to let my wife know I was right once.
It's okay. If she's anything like my Significant Other she'll forgive you this one time. Just don't think Management will allow you to make a habit out of this...
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Old 02-04-2013, 18:45   #47
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Re: Please let it not be the gearbox!

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Originally Posted by SkiprJohn View Post
GThe other was a prop shaft that back out of the coupler and the prop backed into the rudder (it didn't come all the way out TG). That required a snorkel and fins and a small crescent wrench (adjustable spanner) and seizing wire to fix. Snorkel and fins allowed me to push the prop and shaft back in place and the crescent wrench to allow me to get in a tight spot to tighten the bolt on the coupling enough to hold the shaft in.
kind regards,
PLEASE tell me more about this Skipper John.
Today I had the idle adjusted down again (sheared keyway in transmission replaced a few days ago) and now I noticed that in shifting into and gear the shaft appears to be moving about 1/4" out -- basically the shaft when I put her in gear moves out of the coupling part.
What is that, and how does it get repaired? Is it normal? (I've never seen the movement before)

Worried. (apologizing for thread shift)
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Old 02-04-2013, 20:08   #48
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Re: Please let it not be the gearbox!

Be very worried. If your prop is not in an aperture, next reverse can pull the shaft out of the boat, big hole, lots of water. Needs immediate fix. Probably set screw in coupling has gone AWOL.
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Old 02-04-2013, 21:23   #49
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Re: Please let it not be the gearbox!

Yes to what Sanibel said. The coupling has a matching key way to the prop shaft. There is a set screw or a bolt that goes through the side of the coupling and then into a dimple on the prop shaft. If that set screw/bolt backs out or is lost then the shaft can back out when in reverse. The prop just pulls the shaft out from the coupling and it keeps going unless it hits the rudder. If the rudder is in another area then the shaft pulls free and leaves a big hole in the boat where the shaft was.
Check that key and set screw!
kind regards,
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Old 02-04-2013, 21:30   #50
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Re: Please let it not be the gearbox!

sounds like drive plate between flywheel and gearbox potentially to me
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Old 02-04-2013, 21:46   #51
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Re: Please let it not be the gearbox!

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Originally Posted by phil23 View Post
sounds like drive plate between flywheel and gearbox potentially to me
If you're talking about the OP's problem, he's already said it was the key on the prop.

If you're talking about the problem just brought up, the parts you're talking about are on the input side of the transmission. How does this relate to the prop shaft moving?
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Old 03-04-2013, 06:49   #52
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Re: Please let it not be the gearbox!

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Originally Posted by sanibel sailor View Post
Be very worried. If your prop is not in an aperture, next reverse can pull the shaft out of the boat, big hole, lots of water. Needs immediate fix. Probably set screw in coupling has gone AWOL.
I believe that is in.. it's about 3/8" and has a square head.

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Originally Posted by SkiprJohn View Post
Yes to what Sanibel said. The coupling has a matching key way to the prop shaft. There is a set screw or a bolt that goes through the side of the coupling and then into a dimple on the prop shaft. If that set screw/bolt backs out or is lost then the shaft can back out when in reverse. The prop just pulls the shaft out from the coupling and it keeps going unless it hits the rudder. If the rudder is in another area then the shaft pulls free and leaves a big hole in the boat where the shaft was.
Check that key and set screw!
kind regards,
Will do -- and thanks.

Okay, I've looked this morning. One of those 3/8" ((guessing)) bolts that goes thru the coupling and into the shaft is present and accounted for. It appears to be tightened down but my hand strength isn't great so will have a guy verify.
HOWEVER, I see a second hole (same diameter, 1/4" way around the coupling) that has nothing in it. Are there usually two set screws in the coupling? A bilge check has revealed no missing parts -- yet that's not to say it was ever present. This boat has had a lot of workers so basically, it's me responsible for the errors of omission, et al.

And thanks so much fellows. This is way beyond my scope of knowledge and I like having a head's up prior to a worker arriving, you know?

Crossing fingers that it is something cheap!!! (and easily remedied)
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:55   #53
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Re: Please let it not be the gearbox!

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I
HOWEVER, I see a second hole (same diameter, 1/4" way around the coupling) that has nothing in it. Are there usually two set screws in the coupling? A bilge check has revealed no missing parts -- yet that's not to say it was ever present. This boat has had a lot of workers so basically, it's me responsible for the errors of omission, et al.
Not all shaft couplers, but more often than not they will have 2 set screws... My preferred setup is one that has a bolt actually threaded into the shaft, and the 2nd set screw applying pressure from 90 degrees...

The secret here is find the play... See if you can get your tranny coupling stationary... Large pipe wrench... bar or screwdriver between coupler fasteners... wedge against hull or board... or just hold manually... put a strap wrench on the shaft and wiggle! See if you get any play there...
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:18   #54
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Re: Please let it not be the gearbox!

Gotcha MD Sailor... (and it's 1/4 of the way around the coupling between the two holes, not .25 inches)

I've not drilled into my shaft (it was suggested to burr the shaft where the PSS attaches. At this point although I understand the concept I'm a bit cautious about drilling -- at least doing it myself. Since the hole is 1/4" (I measured the open one) I'm taking it you're suggesting a 1/4 machine screw. I've got lots of 1/4-20's in stainless. How deep into the shaft should I drill?
Anything else I should know prior to beginning this caper? (Guessing to put the engine in gear so the shaft will be locked...?)

Still learning.
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:00   #55
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Re: Please let it not be the gearbox!

Next question for my off-site repair advisers: I've removed the one set screw that was holding the shaft to the coupling and can confirm it is 3/8". I do have 3/8" machine screws (same thread count confirmed via nuts) ...

I've looked in both holes (same diameter -- the coupling is dinged (softer metal) so though it looks smaller the hole actually fits a 3/8" bolt HOWEVER my 3/8" drill bit will not fit in that hole. So how do I proceed? Smaller drill bit (will have to purchase as nothing between 1/4 and 3/8 aboard the boat) Or just bolt them up tightly?
The engine one was soft metal with a square head (hole thru head) while my ship stores are all stainless, hex-head.

Yes, I will be going out (more set screws for the PSS -- spares to replenish stock) so should I duplicate the square head or go with two stainless (have those) ???

And thanks. I'm feeling better (not so worried now) but am anxious to be moving. This tied to dock stuff is almost awful.
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:34   #56
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Re: Please let it not be the gearbox!

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Originally Posted by Mark1977 View Post
I will have to let my wife know I was right once.
Bad idea. Do that and it might be the last time you are every right.
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:54   #57
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Re: Please let it not be the gearbox!

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Originally Posted by janice142 View Post
Next question for my off-site repair advisers: I've removed the one set screw that was holding the shaft to the coupling and can confirm it is 3/8". I do have 3/8" machine screws (same thread count confirmed via nuts) ...

I've looked in both holes (same diameter -- the coupling is dinged (softer metal) so though it looks smaller the hole actually fits a 3/8" bolt HOWEVER my 3/8" drill bit will not fit in that hole. So how do I proceed? Smaller drill bit (will have to purchase as nothing between 1/4 and 3/8 aboard the boat) Or just bolt them up tightly?
The engine one was soft metal with a square head (hole thru head) while my ship stores are all stainless, hex-head.

Yes, I will be going out (more set screws for the PSS -- spares to replenish stock) so should I duplicate the square head or go with two stainless (have those) ???

And thanks. I'm feeling better (not so worried now) but am anxious to be moving. This tied to dock stuff is almost awful.
Regarding the drill bit and the screw, if I recall the size of a screw or bolt is measured to the outside of the threads of the screw. So the hole it goes into the threads in the hole will leave the opening smaller than the size of the screw. So a 3/8" set screw will be 3/8" measured to the outside of the threads, but the threads inside the hole it fits must go to the lower spots on the screw so a 3/8" bit will not fit.

If you are trying to drill into the shaft to make a more secure hold for the set screws you have two options. First is to just dimple the shaft. Just like it sounds, drill a shallow dimple into the shaft, that will let the set screw point sit in the shallow hole. This might be a good time to mention that there are different kinds of set screws, some pointed, some with a round/flat tip. You want to use the pointed kind, which by the way are best if used only once. Remove it and you should use a new one for the best grip.

Option two is to drill a deeper hole and thread it with a tap so you can actually screw into the shaft. I think the dimple may be good enough.

A couple of other suggestions. If you are going to drill the shaft either way you might want to remove the coupling or get a bit that cuts only on the tip so you don't mess up the threads in the hole in the coupling.

Another suggestion, if you are concerned about your shaft getting lose and possibly flying out the back of the boat (yes that has happened, not to me thank goodness) you should attach a zinc or some sort of collar around the shaft between the coupling and the stuffing box. Should prevent the total loss anyway.

Good luck.
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Old 03-04-2013, 12:04   #58
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Re: Please let it not be the gearbox!

Thanks skipmac... and yes, i do have two spare shaft zincs on the inside near the PSS though my shaft cannot come out unless the rudder is turned hard over.

My bolts (set screws) are machine versus pointed (wood type)
I was speaking with the Loctite folks (800-624-7767) and they recommend Blue (of course I have red) so I'll be using that too.

The bolt I have removed for comparison does have a semi-rounded pointy end (it's like the threads were removed for the last "go-round") ...

And how do I determine how far forward (or aft) the shaft belongs? Is his an exact science or ???

Again, many thanks to all for guidance thus far provided.
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Old 03-04-2013, 12:23   #59
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Re: Please let it not be the gearbox!

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Originally Posted by janice142 View Post
Thanks skipmac... and yes, i do have two spare shaft zincs on the inside near the PSS though my shaft cannot come out unless the rudder is turned hard over.

My bolts (set screws) are machine versus pointed (wood type)
I was speaking with the Loctite folks (800-624-7767) and they recommend Blue (of course I have red) so I'll be using that too.

The bolt I have removed for comparison does have a semi-rounded pointy end (it's like the threads were removed for the last "go-round") ...

And how do I determine how far forward (or aft) the shaft belongs? Is his an exact science or ???

Again, many thanks to all for guidance thus far provided.
How far forward? Now that's a good question. Not sure if there is a spec for that. On my boats I have always just put them back where they started when messing with that so not certain. As I recall, the end of the shaft was usually 1/4" or so set back from the face of the shaft coupler. Maybe time for someone else to chime in.
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Old 03-04-2013, 12:25   #60
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Re: Please let it not be the gearbox!

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Originally Posted by janice142 View Post
Thanks skipmac... and yes, i do have two spare shaft zincs on the inside near the PSS though my shaft cannot come out unless the rudder is turned hard over.

My bolts (set screws) are machine versus pointed (wood type)
I was speaking with the Loctite folks (800-624-7767) and they recommend Blue (of course I have red) so I'll be using that too.

The bolt I have removed for comparison does have a semi-rounded pointy end (it's like the threads were removed for the last "go-round") ...

And how do I determine how far forward (or aft) the shaft belongs? Is his an exact science or ???

Again, many thanks to all for guidance thus far provided.
Assuming there is a hole in your shaft, there should be. Line it up with the hole in the coupling that the bolt with the cutaway threads goes in.
The hole in your shaft is the diameter of the cutaway threads on your bolt, so the hole is smaller than the o.d. of the bolt with threads.

You should only need the one hole in the shaft. Put your bolt in tight, that will lock the shaft in place since it will be in the hole, then the hole in the head of the bolt is to run a baling (mousing?) wire through. It is wrapped around the shaft and twisted to itself. When done correctly it should keep the bolt from unscrewing itself. As Skipmac said the other hole is the get rid of any slop on the shaft in the coupler. (which really shouldn't be there in the first place) So a set screw without the dimple or hole should be fine, unless you're really the belt and suspenders type.
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