Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 05-01-2016, 20:50   #16
Registered User
 
deblen's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Grand Manan,N.B.,Canada N44.40 W66.50
Boat: Mascot 28 pilothouse motorsailer 28ft
Posts: 1,400
Images: 1
Re: Perkins M20 - Removed head and this lovely sight presented me!

Here is another version of the Perkins 100 series workshop manual:

http://kb-kbh.dk/shipslib/motorer/pe...0_workshop.pdf

These Shibaura engines are also the base for the Volvo Penta 2010,2020,& 2030 series as well as the Perkins M20,M30.

If they have a weak component,it would be the freshwater circulating pump.
The seals tend to dry out if they are not run often. A replacement circ. pump is $175 or so from various non-marine suppliers,ebay,etc.

A fine little motor.

Cheers/ Len
__________________

__________________
My personal experience & humble opinions-feel free to ignore both
deblen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2016, 21:12   #17
Registered User
 
travellerw's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Martinique
Boat: Fortuna Island Spirit 40
Posts: 1,724
Re: Perkins M20 - Removed head and this lovely sight presented me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by deblen View Post
Here is another version of the Perkins 100 series workshop manual:

http://kb-kbh.dk/shipslib/motorer/pe...0_workshop.pdf

These Shibaura engines are also the base for the Volvo Penta 2010,2020,& 2030 series as well as the Perkins M20,M30.

If they have a weak component,it would be the freshwater circulating pump.
The seals tend to dry out if they are not run often. A replacement circ. pump is $175 or so from various non-marine suppliers,ebay,etc.

A fine little motor.

Cheers/ Len
I just want this to be clear for anyone who might read this thread in the future.. Technically, the Volvo Penta engines are Perkins. Volvo contracted Perkins who in turn contracted Shibaura. The 2010, 2020 and 2030 are identical to their Perkins cross in every way except paint color. Parts are completely interchangeable.

The OPs M20 is exactly the same as a MD2020 from Volvo. This may give him another avenue to search for parts or a block replacement.

I also agree they are fine little motors.
__________________

__________________
travellerw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2016, 21:46   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Slidell, La.
Boat: Morgan Classic 33
Posts: 1,102
Re: Perkins M20 - Removed head and this lovely sight presented me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by travellerw View Post
I just want this to be clear for anyone who might read this thread in the future.. Technically, the Volvo Penta engines are Perkins. Volvo contracted Perkins who in turn contracted Shibaura. The 2010, 2020 and 2030 are identical to their Perkins cross in every way except paint color. Parts are completely interchangeable.

The OPs M20 is exactly the same as a MD2020 from Volvo. This may give him another avenue to search for parts or a block replacement.

I also agree they are fine little motors.
Well, not completely. The engines are identical within specific models (a 103-07 is a 103-07 whether a Perkins or a Volvo) from the crankshaft forward. The flywheel housing, rear engine plate (Perkins, Volvo's is integral with the flywheel housing), flywheel and transmission drive plate are different, and I assume the rear crankshaft seal is as well. All the internal engine parts are the same. There may also be differences between Volvo and Perkins in their respective starters and alternators.

My experience with the engine coincides with Deblen and Traveler's, a very good engine.
__________________
jimbunyard is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2016, 04:34   #19
Registered User
 
deblen's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Grand Manan,N.B.,Canada N44.40 W66.50
Boat: Mascot 28 pilothouse motorsailer 28ft
Posts: 1,400
Images: 1
Re: Perkins M20 - Removed head and this lovely sight presented me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbunyard View Post
Well, not completely. The engines are identical within specific models (a 103-07 is a 103-07 whether a Perkins or a Volvo) from the crankshaft forward. The flywheel housing, rear engine plate (Perkins, Volvo's is integral with the flywheel housing), flywheel and transmission drive plate are different, and I assume the rear crankshaft seal is as well. All the internal engine parts are the same. There may also be differences between Volvo and Perkins in their respective starters and alternators.

My experience with the engine coincides with Deblen and Traveler's, a very good engine.
I wasn't aware of these differences-Thanks.

A look at pg 4 of this link shows the Shibaura vs. Perkins model number relations.
http://www.svpartyoffive.com/perkins_100.pdf

M20 = KB 103-06
M25 = KB 103-09
M30 = KB 103-10

I have a KB 103-10 radiator cooled sitting in my garage as a replacement for my old VP 2003 if it dies.The 2003 is a totally different engine than the 103-10 & it would require some engine room mods to changeover,but I know the Perkins from new,the price was right,it has 250 original hours & runs like a top.I run it for 1/2 hr several time a year.
A friend bought it's twin & marinized it a few yrs back & replaced his Atomic 4 with it. He bought the wc manifold,,bell housing,etc from a Detroit dealer in Halifax NS. He used a Hurth gearbox. He also used an external heat exchanger rather than the expensive core that fits in the Perkins manifold. It is still working fine.
I have several pics & vids of the 103-10 if it would help anyone. I do remember the Shibaura name is cast in the block & the Perkins tag is on it also.

Cheers/ Len
__________________
My personal experience & humble opinions-feel free to ignore both
deblen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2016, 07:32   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Seattle
Boat: '76 Bristol 27
Posts: 174
Re: Perkins M20 - Removed head and this lovely sight presented me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by travellerw View Post
You will find your gold here... Its an Shibaura E643

SailNet Community - View Single Post - volvo engine vs yanmar engine

However, I have had limited results with the New Holland dealers.. Perkins is doing a hell of a job controller parts for these motors..
Mannnnnnnn. I am so thankful for you giving this URL to me!

After finding out that the ford gt-65 uses the same engine, I found a parts site similar to the Volvo Penta Shop - Volvo Penta Shop - Electronic Parts Catalog - Home Page but for the Ford GT65. Messicks.com is a friggen gold mine man.

The Volvo Crankshaft pulley is $250 new, but i found used ones ranging from $100-$200. Then i searched the Ford GT65 pulley and found it new for $55, but a simple search on ebay found it for $18!

I paid a total, with shipping, $24. My heart started beating again as the Volvo penta price caused it to stop! Now i just need to find the sizing of all the gaskets and build myself a overhaul kit.

Super glad you guys provided that for me. Not sure why i didn't come across the sailnet post, but I'm glad someone did!
__________________
chowdan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2016, 09:44   #21
Registered User
 
travellerw's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Martinique
Boat: Fortuna Island Spirit 40
Posts: 1,724
Re: Perkins M20 - Removed head and this lovely sight presented me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by chowdan View Post
Mannnnnnnn. I am so thankful for you giving this URL to me!

After finding out that the ford gt-65 uses the same engine, I found a parts site similar to the Volvo Penta Shop - Volvo Penta Shop - Electronic Parts Catalog - Home Page but for the Ford GT65. Messicks.com is a friggen gold mine man.

The Volvo Crankshaft pulley is $250 new, but i found used ones ranging from $100-$200. Then i searched the Ford GT65 pulley and found it new for $55, but a simple search on ebay found it for $18!

I paid a total, with shipping, $24. My heart started beating again as the Volvo penta price caused it to stop! Now i just need to find the sizing of all the gaskets and build myself a overhaul kit.

Super glad you guys provided that for me. Not sure why i didn't come across the sailnet post, but I'm glad someone did!
No worries fella.. I love it when someone gets around the Perkins monopoly.

The Perkins M20 (Volvo MD2020) and Perkins M30 (Volvo MD2030) are probably some of the most produced small diesel engines in the world.

Since this post may be found by people in the same position but looking for parts for the M30, I thought it would be good to post the same information here.

The M30 (MD2030) is based on the Shibaura S753-D block. This motor was used in everything from chippers, generators, screw compressors and tractors. I believe the most common tractor it was used in was the Ford New Holland 1310. Hopefully this thread will help out others..

Please keep posting as you go through the "resurrection" process. I'm invested now and really want to know the outcome.
__________________
travellerw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2016, 09:57   #22
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Slidell, La.
Boat: Morgan Classic 33
Posts: 1,102
Re: Perkins M20 - Removed head and this lovely sight presented me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by deblen View Post
I wasn't aware of these differences-Thanks.

A look at pg 4 of this link shows the Shibaura vs. Perkins model number relations.
http://www.svpartyoffive.com/perkins_100.pdf

M20 = KB 103-06
M25 = KB 103-09
M30 = KB 103-10

I have a KB 103-10 radiator cooled sitting in my garage as a replacement for my old VP 2003 if it dies.The 2003 is a totally different engine than the 103-10 & it would require some engine room mods to changeover,but I know the Perkins from new,the price was right,it has 250 original hours & runs like a top.I run it for 1/2 hr several time a year.
A friend bought it's twin & marinized it a few yrs back & replaced his Atomic 4 with it. He bought the wc manifold,,bell housing,etc from a Detroit dealer in Halifax NS. He used a Hurth gearbox. He also used an external heat exchanger rather than the expensive core that fits in the Perkins manifold. It is still working fine.
I have several pics & vids of the 103-10 if it would help anyone. I do remember the Shibaura name is cast in the block & the Perkins tag is on it also.

Cheers/ Len
After looking at the above reference, was curious and went out and checked the Volvo MD2020 I have as a spare. Cast into the block on the
starter side just under the heat exchanger, is 103-07. I have a natural distrust of manuals, I've seen too many mistakes in them. More than likely Chowdan's engine is a 103-06, but I would certainly either check the block casting for the number on it or measure the piston before ordering either pistons or a head gasket, just to be sure. Manufacturers have a nasty habit of not or sporadically including updates and intra-model changes in their literature...
__________________
jimbunyard is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2016, 13:20   #23
Registered User
 
deblen's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Grand Manan,N.B.,Canada N44.40 W66.50
Boat: Mascot 28 pilothouse motorsailer 28ft
Posts: 1,400
Images: 1
Re: Perkins M20 - Removed head and this lovely sight presented me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbunyard View Post
After looking at the above reference, was curious and went out and checked the Volvo MD2020 I have as a spare. Cast into the block on the
starter side just under the heat exchanger, is 103-07. I have a natural distrust of manuals, I've seen too many mistakes in them. More than likely Chowdan's engine is a 103-06, but I would certainly either check the block casting for the number on it or measure the piston before ordering either pistons or a head gasket, just to be sure. Manufacturers have a nasty habit of not or sporadically including updates and intra-model changes in their literature...
Wow! Perhaps VP used different Shibaura models on all their 1 & 2cyl 2010 & 2020 ? I have never had a VP to look at. Pays to check. Thanks!
/ Len
__________________
My personal experience & humble opinions-feel free to ignore both
deblen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2016, 13:24   #24
Registered User
 
deblen's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Grand Manan,N.B.,Canada N44.40 W66.50
Boat: Mascot 28 pilothouse motorsailer 28ft
Posts: 1,400
Images: 1
Re: Perkins M20 - Removed head and this lovely sight presented me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by travellerw View Post
No worries fella.. I love it when someone gets around the Perkins monopoly.

The Perkins M20 (Volvo MD2020) and Perkins M30 (Volvo MD2030) are probably some of the most produced small diesel engines in the world.

Since this post may be found by people in the same position but looking for parts for the M30, I thought it would be good to post the same information here.

The M30 (MD2030) is based on the Shibaura S753-D block. This motor was used in everything from chippers, generators, screw compressors and tractors. I believe the most common tractor it was used in was the Ford New Holland 1310. Hopefully this thread will help out others..

Please keep posting as you go through the "resurrection" process. I'm invested now and really want to know the outcome.
Great info-thanks!
Where are you getting the "S753D" designation-from Ford-New Holland?
Just interested.

Cheers/ Len
__________________
My personal experience & humble opinions-feel free to ignore both
deblen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2016, 13:53   #25
Registered User
 
travellerw's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Martinique
Boat: Fortuna Island Spirit 40
Posts: 1,724
Re: Perkins M20 - Removed head and this lovely sight presented me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by deblen View Post
Great info-thanks!
Where are you getting the "S753D" designation-from Ford-New Holland?
Just interested.

Cheers/ Len
Its not something that was easy to find.. I essentially had to study specs and schematics to figure it out. Perkins has done a crazy good job of obfuscating this information.


The S753 appears to have a few "models". The S753, S753-C, S753L and S753-D. There is also an S773 model that shares MANY of the same parts. In most cases, they just changed the bore/stroke to obtain different ratings.

An example of the price difference between parts. I need a diesel leak-off rail (cracked line removing it). Cost through Perkins/Volvo is about $220, cost through Hustler machinery is $18.
__________________
travellerw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2016, 14:26   #26
Registered User
 
JTHAW's Avatar

Join Date: May 2015
Location: west Fl., Tampa Bay,
Boat: '76 Heritage West Indies 36 Morgan design
Posts: 156
Images: 4
Re: Perkins M20 - Removed head and this lovely sight presented me!

great cross reference info here....avoid perkins Volvo marine dealers if at all possible...because of price gouging.
I have an M30 103-10...excellent engine...there are many thousands in industrial and agricultural/water service all over the world...to the Op have you verified the parts from Hustler fit? are they exact replacements?
price difference seems a little too good to be true...would like to know...
Be aware though, to all....the fresh water cooling attachments can only be gotten from a Perkins dealer....The marine cooling system was added on by each selling marine master distributor; After shipping from Japan.. thus designation "Perama M30....I was just gouged $78.00, including shipping and tax,.. for the largest coolant hose on my M30, should have been $25 bucks or less.....but only available thru Perkins...apparently nowhere else...when I called the Ag. industrial distributors they had no clue or part numbers on the marineized cooling system parts...
__________________
had to sell my beauty, can't physically do the hard labor needed to sail and maintain,.. bad back....if you can?...Go
JTHAW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2016, 14:38   #27
Registered User
 
travellerw's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Martinique
Boat: Fortuna Island Spirit 40
Posts: 1,724
Re: Perkins M20 - Removed head and this lovely sight presented me!

I ordered the part through Hustler, but haven't tried to fit it yet (not at my boat). The part numbers matches though. It was worth the risk I think!
__________________
travellerw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2016, 16:55   #28
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Seattle
Boat: '76 Bristol 27
Posts: 174
Re: Perkins M20 - Removed head and this lovely sight presented me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by travellerw View Post
I ordered the part through Hustler, but haven't tried to fit it yet (not at my boat). The part numbers matches though. It was worth the risk I think!
Would agree with this. If the part doesn't fit, it was an $18 part. Definitely worth the risk in my view.

The pulley that I bought has a number on the back side - "AP751-" however the crank shaft pulley that i have has "AP751-5".

The one that i bought also has 3 holes in the lower segment that look like it has no real usage(maybe to decrease weight?), however the pulley on mine don't have the holes.

Heres the image of the one i'm buying. Wont be here till Jan 14th, so I probably wont be able to test it out and fit it on the boat till the 16th sadly. I wish i could just have this thing today as i'd make the trek to the boat to test it out!
__________________
chowdan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2016, 19:10   #29
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Slidell, La.
Boat: Morgan Classic 33
Posts: 1,102
Re: Perkins M20 - Removed head and this lovely sight presented me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by chowdan View Post
Would agree with this. If the part doesn't fit, it was an $18 part. Definitely worth the risk in my view.

The pulley that I bought has a number on the back side - "AP751-" however the crank shaft pulley that i have has "AP751-5".

The one that i bought also has 3 holes in the lower segment that look like it has no real usage(maybe to decrease weight?), however the pulley on mine don't have the holes.

Heres the image of the one i'm buying. Wont be here till Jan 14th, so I probably wont be able to test it out and fit it on the boat till the 16th sadly. I wish i could just have this thing today as i'd make the trek to the boat to test it out!
The holes are from balancing.
__________________
jimbunyard is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2016, 04:11   #30
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Seattle
Boat: '76 Bristol 27
Posts: 174
Re: Perkins M20 - Removed head and this lovely sight presented me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbunyard View Post
The holes are from balancing.
Ahhh that makes sense now. Thanks
__________________

__________________
chowdan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
head, perkins

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale or Trade: Westerly Centaur - well presented - 12,000 OBO bbowers2004 Classifieds Archive 4 22-07-2014 14:19
Replacment for Perkins M20 RKurosu Engines and Propulsion Systems 1 17-03-2012 13:07
Perkins Perama M20 Replacement russcannell Engines and Propulsion Systems 11 04-06-2011 18:45



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:19.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.