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Old 20-06-2014, 12:39   #16
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Re: Perkins bleeds, starts, then quits.

Ooh, Racor check valve... Interesting.

I removed the USCG certified fuel hose from the Racor (5/16) and just plugged the 5/16 clear hose to the same spot with a hose clamp to secure it. Definitely the correct flow direction.

I'll check the gauge during the next test session.

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Old 20-06-2014, 15:57   #17
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Re: Perkins Bleeds, Starts, then Quits.

Rebuilding A Racor Turbine Filter Photo Gallery by Compass Marine How To at pbase.com

This is Maine Sail's how to rebuild a Racor filter. Scroll about half way down the page to see how the check valve must be installed.
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Old 22-06-2014, 07:13   #18
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Re: Perkins Bleeds, Starts, then Quits.

Hey Be Bop, The check valve is important but not an issue if the engine is running. Basically it functions after the engine shuts down.

As you suggested it appears that you have eliminated the system with the clear hose. As I read you post you have hard pipe from the fuel pump onward. That would worry me that the pump may be introducing air.

A bad diaphragm will do that and can also introduce fuel into the lube oil. So check to see if the lube oil level has changes or if it smells like fuel.

The CAV injector pump is pressurized so any air should be coming in before it however there is a small plate on the side that has a crappy gasket. This normally causes a leak OUT but may be an issue. Check under the plate to see if fuel is leaking out when the engine is off. Not likely the issue but we are cutting hairs here.
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Old 22-06-2014, 11:56   #19
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Re: Perkins Bleeds, Starts, then Quits.

I can operate the lift pump manually, quickly, with strong pumping and no air coming through the tank return line. Feels good.

My injector pump looks different than your picture. No side plate, and instead of that one rectangular top piece, I have 3 flanges bolting parts to the top of the pump. After inspection, I found that the flange holding the anti-stall device/top bleed screw/idle adjustment assembly to the top of the pump is very slightly loose! I have to use some pressure, but with no leverage I can get the thing to rotate about 1mm or less back and forth with my hands. I can see a thin paper gasket between the mating surfaces as well. I've marked the photo where I see movement. 2 star shaped bolts secure it, one of which has been safety wired. Whoever installed it did not want any yahoo messing with it, looks like... I've drawn arrows pointing at the 2 securing bolts on the other pic.
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Old 22-06-2014, 12:20   #20
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Re: Perkins Bleeds, Starts, then Quits.

For a fuel can I used the smallest fuel can I had and just stuck the end of the hose into the can then took off the fuel hose from various places, bled the system to get a siphon from the fuel can going. An old bleach or degergent container will do. Can/container always needs to be higher than your engine. The best would be a fuel can from an outboard with a pump so you could pressurize it a bit.

I assume you cleaned and dried each fuel filter housing, hose and pipe and pressurized the system with your electric fuel pump to see if you found any wet spots already.
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Old 22-06-2014, 12:24   #21
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Re: Perkins Bleeds, Starts, then Quits.

The last fellow I helped with a similar problem had a bolt/screw on the bottom of his fuel filter that just wasn't quite tight enough. The engine would run for about 15 minutes before shutting down.
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Old 22-06-2014, 12:42   #22
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Re: Perkins Bleeds, Starts, then Quits.

I always fill the filter hosing with fuel before putting it back on. Helps a lot. Sometimes just a bubble of air at the top can be problematic. I had a small engine once that had a factory Ell shaped barb on the engine where the fuel line connected. (no filter on the engine) If that Ell was turned down instead of up, the engine would die all the time. Even bleeding didn't cure it. Evidently a small bubble of air would stay in the Ell, and bleeding fuel would just by pass the bubble. turn the ell up and ouila! fixed.
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Old 30-06-2014, 12:03   #23
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Re: Perkins Bleeds, Starts, then Quits.

I think I finally found the problem. It may never have been an air leak!

I set a gas can above the engine and gravity feed fuel directly to the injector pump. Same symptoms.

So realizing it must be the pump, I removed half the engine to remove that sucker and dropped it off at the shop. I'm waiting for confirmation, but what may have happened is I knocked a small bit of algae loose in the process of changing the filter. It was working it's way through the system resulting in very weird symptoms. Finally, it came to rest in the injector pump inlet, probably getting caught by the small filter inside the pump. While bleeding it would fill the pump with enough fuel to run for 20 seconds, but the restriction prevented the flow from keeping up with the need. So no air leak, just restricted fuel flow.

I heard these pumps are very sensitive and it's highly recommended to have a professional work on them, so I dropped it off at the shop and as I said, waiting expectantly for confirmation on this latest hypothesis.

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Old 30-06-2014, 16:52   #24
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Re: Perkins Bleeds, Starts, then Quits.

Let us know if that's the cure. Make certain your timing marks line up for installation of the injector pump. It makes a huge difference if it is out of time.

Good luck and hope that cures it.
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Old 17-09-2014, 23:52   #25
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Re: Perkins Bleeds, Starts, then Quits.

Fixed it! It was a combination of 4 problems.

One combo-problem was a small crack in fuel return line along with the Racor's check-valve being bad. The fuel from the Racor would drain back to the tank, sucking air in from the crack.

Also, the stopped up injector pump. She now works great after a $600 rebuild.

And the big one: The new Napa fuel filter was slightly different from the old Fram filter. The replacement gaskets blocks the filter's flow-through holes creating a slight fuel restriction. There was enough flow to bleed and fill the injector pump, but not enough to keep up with a running engine (hence the 15 seconds of run-time before quitting).

Details and procedures for the Perkins 4-108 are here including troubleshooting steps (in excruciating detail):
1978 Cal 39 MkII Sailboat | Bleeding the Bleedin' Perkins
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