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Old 28-10-2017, 03:35   #1
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Perkins 404D-22 Making a horrible popping sound.

Hi.
I am not a mechanic but was hoping to diagnose this problem and fix it myself if its possible.
The motor is in my boat and has only recently started making this noise.
Here is a link to my video so you can have a listen.




I have always had allot of difficulty starting the engine if its been sitting for a few days.
It also uses a little bit of water. I estimate about 100mls over 5 hours running.
doesn't use much oil.
I recently had the tappets adjusted and glow plugs checked, one replaced.

Any ideas?
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Old 28-10-2017, 16:21   #2
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Re: Perkins 404D-22 Making a horrible popping sound.

The popping sounds like an intake leak; a hose left off or something not tightened, more remotely an intake valve adjusted too tightly.

It could also be an exhaust leak, but you'd smell fumes if it were...

Difficulty starting after sitting up oftentimes is caused by small leak in the suction side of the fuel system, but can also be caused by, individually or in combination, a weak battery and/or charging system, corroded connections or bad starter cables or poor component grounding. Diesel engines must rotate at proper, designed cranking speed for fast starts.

There are also many causes of using coolant. Does the engine run well otherwise? (besides the 'popping', it sounds like it does)

The symptom could indicate a problem as bad as a cracked head or block or leaking head gasket, or as simple as a loose hose or leaking heat exchanger seal or bad radiator cap; on some engines there can even be leaks around the injectors. Start with the easiest first (look for signs of dampness around key component interfaces, check for loose clamps), try and get your slow starting problem fixed (the two could be related). A compression test might or might not provide some insight, but if the engine runs strong otherwise, compression is likely good. Slow coolant leaks can be very hard to trace...
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Old 28-10-2017, 21:46   #3
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Re: Perkins 404D-22 Making a horrible popping sound.

Thanks Jim
I have organised a mechanic to take a look early this week. He thinks he knows whats wrong with it but isn't letting on yet. $$
Thanks for input. I have changed the air filter and a couple of months ago a mechanic did the tappets and tested and changed one of the glow plugs to improve the starting problem, which has worked to a certain extent but its not as good as it should be and still requires allot of cranking when she's cold.

She had started to make that popping sound just before he looked at it. It was a fairly instant thing. It wasn't there one day and there the next.
Anyway, the fact that he did some work on her I would hope that she was put back together right.
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Old 28-10-2017, 23:36   #4
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Re: Perkins 404D-22 Making a horrible popping sound.

If the water loss isn't noticeable at hoses, pump, etc., then is going into the engine. If there's no sign of water in the oil then it could be going into the cylinders. Before you go down that road, you should pressure test the heat exchanger. Coolant pressure is higher than raw water pressure, so if there's a leak the pressure would force coolant into the salt water side of the exchanger.
If the coolant loss isn't the heat exchanger then the most common is a head crack or a bad head gasket.
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Old 29-10-2017, 00:30   #5
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Re: Perkins 404D-22 Making a horrible popping sound.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepke View Post
If the water loss isn't noticeable at hoses, pump, etc., then is going into the engine. If there's no sign of water in the oil then it could be going into the cylinders. Before you go down that road, you should pressure test the heat exchanger. Coolant pressure is higher than raw water pressure, so if there's a leak the pressure would force coolant into the salt water side of the exchanger.
If the coolant loss isn't the heat exchanger then the most common is a head crack or a bad head gasket.
Thanks Lepke. Food for thought. Its not a lot of water but it could be mixing in the heat exchange. I don't think its the head. As it runs well and Its been using a little bit of water forever.
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Old 29-10-2017, 11:19   #6
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Re: Perkins 404D-22 Making a horrible popping sound.

Sounds awfully like an exhaust manifold leak, to me. feel along the exhaust gasket sealing face area, carefully. You're not likely to be burned so soon after start up.
Do you have a coolant recovery tank? If not, add one. If so, check that the hose doesn't have a leak of any kind. Also make sure that the upper, of the two, seals on the pressure cap is sealing properly. If not, the cooling system cannot create a vacuum to draw the fluid back from the tank, as it cools down, creating the appearance of a "loss"
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Old 29-10-2017, 11:34   #7
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Re: Perkins 404D-22 Making a horrible popping sound.

Sounds like mine. Three possibilities that I have been told to check. knocking rod (hope not), misfiring injector (easy enough to test and rebuild), or I was told by the mechanic that listened to it, it could be built up coke in the exhaust water mixing goose neck if you have a wet exhaust. New one on me but my noise goes away at a higher RPM, say 15-16 hundred, or maybe it's so fast I can't notice. Good luck.
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Old 29-10-2017, 14:25   #8
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Re: Perkins 404D-22 Making a horrible popping sound.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 01kiwijohn View Post
Sounds awfully like an exhaust manifold leak, to me. feel along the exhaust gasket sealing face area, carefully. You're not likely to be burned so soon after start up.
Do you have a coolant recovery tank? If not, add one. If so, check that the hose doesn't have a leak of any kind. Also make sure that the upper, of the two, seals on the pressure cap is sealing properly. If not, the cooling system cannot create a vacuum to draw the fluid back from the tank, as it cools down, creating the appearance of a "loss"
Thanks .
I will check the Manifold.
I do have a water recovery bottle, that's how I know its using a bit of water.
I will check the HE cap. I know the hose is good as I have had a hole in it before. So. I keep a close eye on it.
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Old 29-10-2017, 14:31   #9
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Re: Perkins 404D-22 Making a horrible popping sound.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmschmidt View Post
Sounds like mine. Three possibilities that I have been told to check. knocking rod (hope not), misfiring injector (easy enough to test and rebuild), or I was told by the mechanic that listened to it, it could be built up coke in the exhaust water mixing goose neck if you have a wet exhaust. New one on me but my noise goes away at a higher RPM, say 15-16 hundred, or maybe it's so fast I can't notice. Good luck.
Thanks. I can rule out the mixing elbow as it was completely cleaned and reconditioned about 2 years ago. See, hole in radiator filler hose..
I took the valve cover off on Saturday and all seemed pretty good. But my overall experience with valves and push rods is completely limited to Utube. So it will be interesting to hear what the mechanics got to say.
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Old 29-10-2017, 17:18   #10
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Re: Perkins 404D-22 Making a horrible popping sound.

My 6 penneth!
It does not sound like a popping sound to me , it sounds more like a mechanical knock. Does the noise get worse when in gear under load? The noise does not seem to happen on every revolution? If the noise gets louder under load it could be the flywheel bolts are loose or maybe one of the ancillary drives on the front are moving on the keyway.
I think the loss of coolant may not be related??
If you have a heat sensor tool start the engine and see if you can find one cylinder running hotter or colder than the others ,this will indicate the cylinder that is leaking coolant if it is?
Have you ever had the injectors professionally cleaned? if not I would do that first up it may be one cylinder is getting too much fuel, Dont just add a can of "Magic"!
Interested to hear the result.
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Old 29-10-2017, 18:09   #11
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Re: Perkins 404D-22 Making a horrible popping sound.

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Originally Posted by Barney21 View Post
My 6 penneth!
It does not sound like a popping sound to me , it sounds more like a mechanical knock. Does the noise get worse when in gear under load? The noise does not seem to happen on every revolution? If the noise gets louder under load it could be the flywheel bolts are loose or maybe one of the ancillary drives on the front are moving on the keyway.
I think the loss of coolant may not be related??
If you have a heat sensor tool start the engine and see if you can find one cylinder running hotter or colder than the others ,this will indicate the cylinder that is leaking coolant if it is?
Have you ever had the injectors professionally cleaned? if not I would do that first up it may be one cylinder is getting too much fuel, Dont just add a can of "Magic"!
Interested to hear the result.
A can of "Magic"! Im in!.. Where do I buy it??
I agree, The water use was there before the noise so its likely not related.
I will googling heat sensor tool and cleaning the injectors.
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Old 29-10-2017, 18:35   #12
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Re: Perkins 404D-22 Making a horrible popping sound.

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Originally Posted by 01kiwijohn View Post
Sounds awfully like an exhaust manifold leak, to me. feel along the exhaust gasket sealing face area, carefully. You're not likely to be burned so soon after start up.
Do you have a coolant recovery tank? If not, add one. If so, check that the hose doesn't have a leak of any kind. Also make sure that the upper, of the two, seals on the pressure cap is sealing properly. If not, the cooling system cannot create a vacuum to draw the fluid back from the tank, as it cools down, creating the appearance of a "loss"
I was watching a Youtube vid on leaking intake and exhaust valves and he mentioned that you can here the sound of air escaping if you have a leak.
Know I distinctly remember hearing the sound of air escaping when I stopped cranking the engine. Its not the first time I have heard it. I put it down to some odd water movement in the cooling system as I didn't have the sea cock open at the time I was cranking it. I no this is not good but the valve cover was off and I was looking for sticky valves.
Anyway. Do you think we might be onto something?
Jeff
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Old 29-10-2017, 19:19   #13
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Re: Perkins 404D-22 Making a horrible popping sound.

Sounds like an injector sticking, but that's A guess from a video. You could try loosening and retightning the fuel lines at each injector while it's running, when you find one that doesn't affect the running, that would be your faulty one, if the effect is the same on all I'm wrong. I use a nappy to catch the diesel.
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Old 30-10-2017, 15:56   #14
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Re: Perkins 404D-22 Making a horrible popping sound.

You can find any external noise with a garden hose on any engine- exhaust leaks, vaccume leaks, howling bearings ect. Just move the end of the hose around, holding one end close to your ear, till you find it. Works evrey time.
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Old 30-10-2017, 16:35   #15
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Re: Perkins 404D-22 Making a horrible popping sound.

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Originally Posted by Hoohaa View Post
A can of "Magic"! Im in!.. Where do I buy it??
I agree, The water use was there before the noise so its likely not related.
I will googling heat sensor tool and cleaning the injectors.
As suggested , Magic in a can is Chemtec ( there are many brands) Injector cleaner , I have used straight Tolulene as a liquid but is hard to find, put a litre in a tankfull of diesel ( assuming 100 litre ) . I have used it for years in tractors .
If it does not work you have been warned. I found it worked just to keep things clean.
By the way you can also check which cylinder is not firing if you are quick ,wet the end of your finger touch each exhaust outlet at the head see which one does not " fizz" , no if your finger fizzes you left your finger on it too long!!!! Burnt finger does indicate that cylinder is firing and you left your finger on it for too long!!!!
Have you checked the noise under load?:
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