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Old 01-04-2015, 01:10   #1
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Perkins 4.236 & Borg Warner transmission questions

Ahoy!

I just took possession of my new Cal 2-46. The last few days have been overwhelming, coming up from a MacGregor 26X. So many systems.

I have a couple questions for ye experts here.

I ran the engine for half an hour today, and noticed the engine temperature rose to about 210F before I shut it down. Thru-hull is open, and I can see water splashing out of the exhaust. Coolant reservoir rises over time. Is it safe to let the engine run longer to see if it settles down? Is this likely a thermostat issue? I understand that the nominal operating temperature is around 190F. At what temperature should I panic and shut it down?

Other problem: when I put the transmission into reverse, the transmission oil pressure gauge reads max (150PSI). 0 PSI in neutral, and .. worryingly, forward. Is this likely a sensor / wiring issue? Or, is it possible the oil pressure really is 0 PSI in forward?

Cheers,

Gordon
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Old 01-04-2015, 06:35   #2
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Re: Perkins 4.236 & Borg Warner transmission questions

Some help but the answers are in the reverse order to your questions.

1) If it goes into forward and actually moves the boat, you must have some oil pressure. First check all the wiring and if necessary replace the pressure sender and the gauge.

2) Check the temp using an infra-red temperature gun. You can get these quite cheaply from tool suppliers.
If the gauge is correct, service the heat exchanger, water pump">raw water pump and transmission oil cooler. You can check that the thermostat opens at the correct temp with your new infra red temp gum and a pot of water on the stove.
If the gauge is incorrect, check all the wiring and if necessary replace the temp sender and the gauge.

This is an old boat that is almost certain to have some wiring issues.
Good luck with your project.
Stanley
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Old 01-04-2015, 07:18   #3
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Re: Perkins 4.236 & Borg Warner transmission questions

You mention the raw water system appearing to be discharging. What about the closed loop cooling system. The heat exchanger is a good candidate as is the thermostat.

An infra red temp gun is cheap and makes it easy to check temp deltas across the system. Are you seeing a temp drop across the heat exchanger for example.

Where are you taking trans pressure reading from?

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Old 01-04-2015, 09:32   #4
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Re: Perkins 4.236 & Borg Warner transmission questions

Congratulations on your Cal purchase!

Regarding the transmission oil pressure reading....You don't say which BW gear box model you have , but I will make the assumption that it is a Velvet Drive model 71 or 72. Both of these units have a main pressure line oil tap point on the top of the transmission in the vicinity of the shift valve body. They also have a reverse clutch pressure tap point on the top of the gear box immediately behind the transmission mounting surface.

It sounds as though the pressure gauge or sender is mounted in the reverse pressure port instead of the main pressure port, and that's why you don't see pressure except in reverse.

The correct pressure for the models 71 and 72 is: 117 to 130 psi @ idle and 125 to 140 @ 2000 RPM. The oil temperature should be 155 to 165 degrees when measured. Higher RPM or lower temp. will result in higher pressures.


DougR
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Old 01-04-2015, 10:06   #5
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Re: Perkins 4.236 & Borg Warner transmission questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by glambx View Post
I ran the engine for half an hour today, and noticed the engine temperature rose to about 210F before I shut it down. Thru-hull is open, and I can see water splashing out of the exhaust. Coolant reservoir rises over time. Is it safe to let the engine run longer to see if it settles down? Is this likely a thermostat issue? I understand that the nominal operating temperature is around 190F. At what temperature should I panic and shut it down?

Gordon
There are different types of 4236's but all seem to be the same base engine, but as others have said, it sounds as though you should

Check the temperature gauge is correct
Check the Sea water pump and impeller
Check the Fresh water pump and fan belt
Check the fresh water Coolant is circulating in the header tank
Check the fresh water Coolant header tank cap is sealing OK
Check the thermostat is working
Check the heat exchanger is OK and not blocked
Check for water leaks on all the pipes

The Jabsco sea water pump should pump out A LOT of water if there are no blockages

The fact that engine is heating up so quickly may be pointing to the gauge being faulty or the Cap is faulty

I have a 1984 4,236M Lowline and the thermostat starts to open at 180 degrees F and is fully open at 190 degrees F. It rarely runs any hotter than 195 unless the heat exchanger has impeller bits in it or I am running it VERY Hard under load.

Hope this helps

PS
If it is a 4236M Lowline and you have to take the heat exchanger off PM me it is a pain in the A**e to do
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Old 01-04-2015, 12:29   #6
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Re: Perkins 4.236 & Borg Warner transmission questions

First of all, congratulations! That's a huge difference between your 26 and the 46. I've put a few miles on a 2-46 as crew and as a delivery skipper.

The Perkins is a great engine that likes to run at low rpms. There were two issues that I ran into with that engine while delivering. One was engine oil level and I sorted that out by taking several checks after shutting down the engine. It seemed to give different readings each time I checked it. The other was the engine temperature. When I saw the needle start to climb I just throttled it back until it started to drop again. This was a very hard used engine that was tired and on its last legs before a rebuild.

If your engine has low engine hours it will be a jewel once you get your wiring sorted out.
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Old 01-04-2015, 17:25   #7
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Re: Perkins 4.236 & Borg Warner transmission questions

As no one has mentioned it make sure that you have good water flow through the thru-hill and strainer. Close the seacock and remove the hose. Open thru-hull and ensure that the passage is clear. You may need judicious use of a screw driver to clean out the thru-hull.
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Old 01-04-2015, 19:50   #8
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Re: Perkins 4.236 & Borg Warner transmission questions

Heat exchanger is certainly suspect. Also look at the seawater impeller. The impeller will get loose on the shaft and will not pump as much water as it should.


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Old 02-04-2015, 15:56   #9
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Re: Perkins 4.236 & Borg Warner transmission questions

Depending on the design of your system it may be an air lock in your coolant system which results in an air 'bubble' at or near the thermostat. This 'air bubble' means the thermostat is surrounded by air, not water, so depending on the temperature setting of your thermostat it may not get hot enough (only steam not hot water heating it up) to permit it to open. Result is that although you are pumping and circulating sea water, because the engine coolant is not circulating then there is no 'transfer' of heat from the engine to your sea water system. Sometime the solution is to slightly loosen the hose clamp on the input side of the thermostat and squeeze the coolant hose so that it 'burps' the air out --leaving only a coolant flow showing as you squeeze the hose or burp the system.. OBVIOUSLY DO NOT DO THIS WITH A HOT ENGINE OR WHERE THE COOLANT IS HOT OR YOU WILL LIKELY BE BADLY BURNED OR SCALDED.

Other possibility is a plugged heat exchanger which again prevents the pass-by of coolant and sea water to permit heat transfer, in which case remove the heat exchanger, soak it in mild acid bath or vinegar (to remove built up minerals or salt) and use long wooden (not metal) blunt or soft pointed dowels to see if there are and to remove any obstructions in the exchanger `tubes`(such as small rubber pieces of an impeller). Be careful not to puncture the thin walled tubes of your heat exchanger or to destroy it with too strong or too long an acid bath or you will be buying a new exchanger. Good luck--let us know what you find out.
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Old 02-04-2015, 16:18   #10
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Re: Perkins 4.236 & Borg Warner transmission questions

Oh one other way (and sometimes a simpler way) is to remove the rad cap on your coolant reservoir and squeeze your hot water hose until it `burps`air out of the fill hole
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Old 02-04-2015, 18:03   #11
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Re: Perkins 4.236 & Borg Warner transmission questions

It is important to check and, no doubt,
replace the seals on the heat exchangers as a minimum
maintenance procedure. If they start to leak you will have real problems.
Remember, a new impeller every season.
I fill my system with a 'salt X' solution when not in use for extended periods.
If you are going to replace the heat exchanger seals it would also be a good time to have the seals in the HP fuel pump replaced and get the injectors checked out.
I have a low line 4.236M with a PRM 160.
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Old 03-04-2015, 10:20   #12
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Re: Perkins 4.236 & Borg Warner transmission questions

The temp on my 4.236 rises up quite a bit (230 or so) then drops back down to 185-190. It can take 20 minutes. When it finelly does open it drops to the correct temp quite rapidly (5 seconds or so). Quite alarming the first time.

I did some research on this and came away conflicting info. It could be a sticking thermostat, some thermostats do not have a bleed hole in them that limit hot water getting to the element, etc.

At some point I will replace the thermostat just to see if there is a bleed hole or sticking thermostat.

I do recommend getting an IR temp gauge and measuring the coolant temp. I did also have a loose screw on a gauge (I have 2 gauges) that caused it to read high.

Regards
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Old 05-04-2015, 13:12   #13
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Re: Perkins 4.236 & Borg Warner transmission questions

Wow! So many responses; thank you all!

Apologies for not checking back sooner. This week has been, well, .. I'm sure you all know. Lots of new systems, lots of things to fix. I had focused primarily on domestic systems and only took her out to stretch her legs yesterday.

Thanks DougR.. I suspect you're right about the transmission pressure. I'll check it first.

The transmission seemed to run fine for the little 5NM jaunt, and temperature eventually settled in at 190, verified by IR heat gun.

However, rather alarmingly, this morning when I went to head over for a pumpout, the engine started making a terrible shringing noise while throttling up. It would stop once it reached its target RPM, so it sounds like some bearing is not getting oil. Rather alarming. I went back to the slip immediately.

I'll post another thread as I haven't been able to find anything useful, mainly because I'm not sure how to describe the sound other than "shringing" .. and apparently I'm the only one who uses that term.

Anyway, I'm in a hurry to get on the road and head back to Montreal where I have to take care of shutting down my shoreside life, so I'll read the rest of these responses when I get home.

Thanks again everyone!
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