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Old 08-06-2010, 04:56   #1
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Perkins 4-108 Water Problem !

Hi I hope some one can help, I am kind of at my whits end, I have a Perkins 4108 which seems to run very well however, twice now water seems to have flooded back into the main sump. I have changed the Head gasket and checked the head isnt warped, then some one pointed out I had no Anti syphon on the exhaust system so did that drained the oil and water and replaced, run the engine and sounded good after 30 mins turned it of and did the same opperation again (replaced oil & filters) several times, and thought I had solved the problem, But it seems to have happened again and its alot of water, my only theory is that the vetus water stopper is not low enough from the heat exchanger so water is being pushed back through to the head some how. Any ideas?

Julian
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Old 08-06-2010, 05:24   #2
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Julian,

Exhaust design is very important to the life expectancy of a marine engine and this subject has been discussed many times on internet forums.

Check here for basic information on exhaust design http://www.betamarinenc.com/exhaust%20systems2010.pdf also ensure the waterlock / muffler is at the lowest poosition in the exhaust run and is large enough to contain any water left in the exhaust hoses when the engine shuts down and that the siphon break you recently fitted is actually working and located as high as possible and is above the waterline.
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Old 08-06-2010, 06:16   #3
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Similar issue on our 4108 was found to be the following:

Make sure you do not have a failed seal in your raw water pump. It is mounted on the front of the block, if the seal on the inside of the pump, the part that attaches to the block fails/leaks, you will get raw water in the sump, as it drains directly into it. If the seal is real bad, you will get a lot of water in the sump as the engine is running.

Blocks with high hours on them tend to start eating raw water pumps, according to the Perkins dealer here, there is no cure, except replacing the pump when the seals fail due to the journal in the front of the block wobbling out.
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Old 08-06-2010, 06:17   #4
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Does this happen when you are sailing or when you are motoring?

Stanley
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Old 08-06-2010, 06:29   #5
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Yes thanks, I replaced the Vetus box and it holds 5 Litres, I cant seem to get it lower than the top of prop shaft and there is no space either side to slide it under, the old vetus water stopper was at the same position, and it was very old, but I do agree it should be lower!
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Old 08-06-2010, 06:32   #6
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It runs fantasticly with plenty of pressure firing water out the back, I motor sailed for around 8 hours when we first bought her with no problem, she had been laid up for quite a long time though 18 months!
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Old 08-06-2010, 06:34   #7
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Thanks thats the fist time that has been mentioned, yes it is an engine with plenty of hours under her belt, but would it really leak that much water into the sump?
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Old 08-06-2010, 10:20   #8
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You describe water getting into the sump but what you have worked on are parts that would put water into the head and cause water lock.

The two main places that water would leak into your sump are the water pump and an oil cooler (if you have one).
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Old 08-06-2010, 10:33   #9
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Yes these are the places that it seems to be pointing too, I will have a good look at the weekend, I have a oil cooler so I think I will by pass it as from what I have been told that it is not really nesssesary as the temp never really gets that hot, I havent even looked at the water pump and the so called marine engineer didnt even mention it even though he charged me 700, I still have fresh water in the header tank so I guess the block head and everything else should be ok!! thanks for your advice, glad I joined this forum!!!!!
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Old 08-06-2010, 10:36   #10
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Since it is a high hour engine the water cooler is a prime suspect as well, you can have it pressure tested to positively determine if it is the issue.

However, if you have easy access to the front of the motor I would verify first if there is any indication of water near the back of the pump where it attaches to the block, particulary when it is running.

If you do not see any obvious indication it becomes a toss up of pulling the pump, (if it is the culprit, water will be evident as soon as you pull it from the block) or have the oil cooler pulled and checked.

The pump we replaced showed only a very tiny weepage out the front of the pump, but I think Niagra Falls was going on from the block side of the seal.

I can't think of any other easy way to eliminate either of them from suspicion.
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Old 08-06-2010, 10:40   #11
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If you bypass the oil cooler keep a close eye on the oil temperature. An infrared thermometer would be a good idea. Some trawlers (heavy duty engines) have an oil "cooler" that is cooled with engine coolant rather than sea water. This tends to keep the oil at a better operating temperature and gets it up to temp. quickly.
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Old 08-06-2010, 10:44   #12
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All I kept being told was to get a new engine, and the engineer just shrugged his shoulders and said must be a crack in the block, thanks so much ,didnt fancy the prospect or cost of changing the engine.
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Old 08-06-2010, 11:03   #13
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I don't think Mr. Perkins had the term "planned obsolescence" in his vocabulary when the 4108's were designed.

They just keep going and going.

Even with the known issue on my block, I don't plan on changing it out, when the time comes, we will do another rebuild.
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Old 30-06-2010, 03:46   #14
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Still not sorted the problem, pressure tested the oil cooler, checked the water pump and it has a small outlet just in case water was to feed back, the only thing I can think of now is the water cooled feed to the prop shaft to keep it lubricated. Any further ideas!!!!!!!
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Old 30-06-2010, 06:08   #15
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Please provide a drawing of your intake and exhaust system and include the hose to the stern gland and any possible anti siphon valve. Include the elevation and routing of each hose. I have a feeling that this will end up as something simple but without all the information, everyone is just going to throw their best guess to you. If you provide the full and correct information, you are likely to get the correct answer.
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