Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 11-08-2007, 19:57   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Babylon, NY
Boat: Ericson 38, 1980 Hull#3 "Rettsie"
Posts: 6
Perkins 4-108 Water heater plumbing

My water heater was never connected to the cooling system when I bought my boat. I have the low line Perkins 4-108, with heat exhcanger on the rear of the block, exhasust manifold on port side, and coolant tank in front of the block.

I can't seem to find a good spot to take off for the water heater feed & return. Anyone know the best loaction? Diagram whould be great.

I also have an oil cooler on the starboard side, however the raw water is not led to the cooler. Reading the Perkins Manual, they suggest this is not required for non-commersial applications, with slow RPM, and occasional use. It is a sailboat after all.

Hope to here frm you guys. Thanks, Kevin Padden.

PS, I run a 16x16 Martec 2 blade folding prop with no overheating problems.
__________________

__________________
RETTSIE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2007, 21:51   #2
Now on the Dark Side: Stink Potter.
 
CSY Man's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Ft. Lauderdale
Boat: 2001 Albin 28TE.
Posts: 3,400
Images: 115
Quote:
My water heater was never connected to the cooling system when I bought my boat. I have the low line Perkins 4-108, with heat exhcanger on the rear of the block, exhasust manifold on port side, and coolant tank in front of the block.
My excact setup as well including the oil-cooler on the Starboard side.

Don't have a water heater either..Don't need one around here, but if I was up North I would.....
__________________

__________________
Life is sexually transmitted
www.odincharters.com
www.susanhanssen.com
CSY Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2007, 03:39   #3
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,590
Images: 240
On-Line SHOP MANUALS: cruisersforum.com/forums/f55/on-line-shop-manuals-8758-2.html
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ls-8758-2.html

Including:

Perkins 4-108 manuals:

Owner’s Operating Guide
http://www.endeavourowners.com/dscsn...8%20Manual.pdf

Shop Manual
http://www.endeavourowners.com/dscsn...p%20Manual.pdf

Parts Book
http://www.endeavourowners.com/dscsn...rts%20Book.pdf
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2007, 05:09   #4
cruiser

Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,525
I read somewhere (and mine is intstalled) so that the coolant tank is taken off the engine and the hot water hoses are connected in place of where that forward tank would be.

Look into that.

Does your heat exchanger have a "radiator style" cap on it for filling coolant?

I'll take a couple photos manana (on vacation)./


Quote:
Originally Posted by RETTSIE
My water heater was never connected to the cooling system when I bought my boat. I have the low line Perkins 4-108, with heat exhcanger on the rear of the block, exhasust manifold on port side, and coolant tank in front of the block.

I can't seem to find a good spot to take off for the water heater feed & return. Anyone know the best loaction? Diagram whould be great.

I also have an oil cooler on the starboard side, however the raw water is not led to the cooler. Reading the Perkins Manual, they suggest this is not required for non-commersial applications, with slow RPM, and occasional use. It is a sailboat after all.

Hope to here frm you guys. Thanks, Kevin Padden.

PS, I run a 16x16 Martec 2 blade folding prop with no overheating problems.
__________________
ssullivan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2007, 05:29   #5
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Cruz
Boat: Boatless Again
Posts: 4,334
Hope the picture comes through. It looks like the hot water source is the temperature sensor fitting just behind the thermostat. The return is on the left.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	perkins-hot-water.jpg
Views:	4081
Size:	28.6 KB
ID:	1654  
__________________
donradcliffe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2007, 15:21   #6
cruiser

Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,525
Don Radcliffe is right... that's the spot where the forward coolant reservoir is on boats that have it installed. It is removed and the hot water heater takeoff is plumbed right from there... as I may have cryptically said in my post too.
__________________
ssullivan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2007, 15:32   #7
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chesapeake Region and Maine
Boat: 42' Bob Perry sloop
Posts: 4,038
Images: 4
I'm about to plumb my 4-108 for the water heater also. When I bought the boat some 18 years ago, the heater was plumbed incorrectly, and it constantly was a source of air lock and overheating. So, I just closed the fittings and went without...i.e., with only 115VAC heating.

Now, a friend who is a VERY experienced marine engineer and who lives aboard and who also has a 4-108 has explained how to do it properly.

The takeoff point is from the head, just behind the radiator tank. You use a 6" or so pipe with a T on top (pretty much as shown in the pic). On one side of the T you fit the temperature sensor. On the other side, you take off the hot water.

The return is to the side of the manifold.

His has worked flawlessly for many years, even though his tank is located some 18-24" higher than his engine. No problems. Thanks to him, I now have all the parts and will give it a go first chance I get.

Good luck with yours. Let us know how it goes.

Bill
__________________
btrayfors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2007, 15:38   #8
Now on the Dark Side: Stink Potter.
 
CSY Man's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Ft. Lauderdale
Boat: 2001 Albin 28TE.
Posts: 3,400
Images: 115
Quote:
His has worked flawlessly for many years, even though his tank is located some 18-24" higher than his engine. No problems. Thanks to him, I now have all the parts and will give it a go first chance I get.
Hmm, I sure would like details on that set-up:

Can ya send me pics and stuff, I am about ready to put in that water heater myself.

Thanks
__________________
Life is sexually transmitted
www.odincharters.com
www.susanhanssen.com
CSY Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2007, 14:48   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Babylon, NY
Boat: Ericson 38, 1980 Hull#3 "Rettsie"
Posts: 6
Perkins 4-108 Water Heater

Are you guys saying to remove my coolant tank?

Mine is the type with an auto type twist off radiator cap. I assumed this is required like a radiator, but maybe not? I am reluctant to remove the tank, even though I know the water heater will supply a large resovoir, however my water heater tank is below the maniold and heat exchanger.

I have located two 1/2" ports on the manifold, One on port & one on starboard of the manifold. Because of the install angle of my engine, the port (outside port) is behind & below the starboard (inside, right between the #2, & #3 injectors.

I was thinking of trying to use those 2 ports & see what happens.

Any thoughts?

PS, I know this is a late response, but I've been sailing!
__________________
RETTSIE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2008, 12:20   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 69
my setup

I've got a Perkins 4-108 also and have it plumbed to my water heater which sits under the seat 12' away next to my forward bulkhead.
Everything was working fine for me, no over heating issues, until I drained all the water from my 50-100 gal fresh water holding tank so nothing would freeze and break during the winter.
After draining the water from my system, which also drained the water heater, I noticed my engine overheated and watched all the engine cooling water shoot out the heat exchanger head radiator drip hose until I had no more water in my system and saw tons of steam coming out the the exhaust pipe.
This scared the hell out of me and after searching the internet for possible causes and sollutions, I remembered that I had drained all the water from the holding tank and maybe that had something to do with it.
Rather than fill my water tank back up with water (as winter is just beginning around here) I simply disconnected the hoses going to the water heater and returned my motor to it's original cooling hose setup.
I've included some pictures taken before I disconnected the water heater hoses. You can see the heater return one laying down on the port side going to the back of the engine and the other (heater supply) going up to the thermostat. Luckily I found on the boat a new water hose the perfect length to fit from the thermostat down to the return engine hose on port side where it was connected to the heater return line which goes around to the back bottom of the block.
Now, I'm trying to figure out how I can shut off that water heater when I want to drain my water system without causing problems in the engine cooling department. I think I could just install two two-way valves along the hose and attach the two hot-water heater hoses to these two-way valves. That way I can close off both of them when I want to drain the water tanks without effecting the engine cooling system.
Anyway, I hope this helps, and if anybody has any suggestions on my set up, I'd like to hear them.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0894b.jpg
Views:	3280
Size:	59.4 KB
ID:	6138   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0895b.jpg
Views:	1353
Size:	87.0 KB
ID:	6139  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0898b.jpg
Views:	892
Size:	75.8 KB
ID:	6140  
__________________
dancamp009 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2008, 18:28   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 69
Unhappy whoops, not thermostat, but upper head water outlet

Quote:
Originally Posted by dancamp009 View Post
I've included some pictures taken before I disconnected the water heater hoses. You can see the heater return one laying down on the port side going to the back of the engine and the other (heater supply) going up to the thermostat. Luckily I found on the boat a new water hose the perfect length to fit from the thermostat down to the return engine hose on port side where it was connected to the heater return line which goes around to the back bottom of the block.
On closer inspection, I realize it was not the thermostat that the hose is hooked to, but it is the hot water out-flow tube on top of the head, next to the thermostat.
it got dark that night. . .
__________________
dancamp009 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2008, 20:31   #12
cruiser

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Tampa to New York
Boat: Morgan 33 OutIsland, Magic and 33' offshore scott design "Cutting Edge"
Posts: 1,594
I have the same engine. The water heater installation is factory and is such, there is a line running from the manifold under where the header tank connects with the manifold this line goes to water heater then to heat exchanger. I think its factory because the water heaters dimensions are too big to get through any hatches. Im going to have to cut it up when I eventually get around to installing the new one Ive had for almost a year now. Boat is morgan outislander 33 lowline m 4.108
__________________
forsailbyowner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2008, 23:49   #13
Registered User
 
Trekka's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Boat: CSY33
Posts: 177
Images: 75
I think what is causing a lot of confusion is that just about every 4-108 seems different from another. The ones in the pictures above are models that have a combo reservoir/heatexchanger on the port side. rom what i understand from TAD that is a later - and preferred - configuration. The original poster and I have the older design with reservoir above the thermostat, and heat exchanger behind the engine.



From my explorations of my engine and understanding of what the PO did with it (had a hot water tap & return that I disconnected) I think I have a couple bits of useful info. There are two places on the top of the block where coolant can be accessed.


Above pix show the aft tap location. On this boat it is used as a tap to feed hot coolant to the HWH. The temp sensor was placed at the top of the Tee - not a good location!

Here is the front tap location, right behind the reservoir/thermostat.

On this engine a temperature sensor is in the socket.

The return of the coolant after going through the HWH is to a low side of a Y leading to the oil cooler.

The top of the Y is fed directly from the heat exchanger just a few inches away.

Hope this is of some use.

(Btw, I've finished the coolant system cleaning/flushing/painting detailed in other threads and will be doing final assembly/fill this weekend)
__________________
Trekka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2008, 17:06   #14
cruiser

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Tampa to New York
Boat: Morgan 33 OutIsland, Magic and 33' offshore scott design "Cutting Edge"
Posts: 1,594


Heres where mine is tapped. It then goes to w/h then to exchanger
__________________
forsailbyowner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2008, 17:32   #15
Registered User
 
Trekka's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Boat: CSY33
Posts: 177
Images: 75
So, it looks like you are taking the coolant outflow from the exhaust manifold and routing it (all) to the HWH, then on to the HE?
__________________

__________________
Trekka is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Salt water in Perkins 4-154 oil sample starfish62 Engines and Propulsion Systems 37 01-07-2009 10:20
water heater Ray Hunt Construction, Maintenance & Refit 8 23-01-2009 11:34
Conclusion [and further developments WRT KISS wind generation] (was) Re: Water Heater skipgundlach Product or Service Reviews & Evaluations 2 04-06-2007 08:31
Water Heater experience sought skipgundlach Product or Service Reviews & Evaluations 7 26-04-2007 06:13
Perkins 4-236 cooling water circuit seaclusion Engines and Propulsion Systems 0 13-01-2007 06:07



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:29.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.