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Old 23-08-2012, 05:31   #46
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Re: Perkins 4.108 Rebuild?

I am in the middle of a top-end rebuild on my 4.108 and appreciate the comments! Cheers!
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Old 23-08-2012, 06:08   #47
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Re: Perkins 4.108 Rebuild?

I have a 1985 built 4-108 and while I don't have the workshop manual in front of me I know there are different versions of the 4-108. I believe mine was refered to as "new". Years ago I remember checking that the thermostat was working properly and removed it and checked it by seeing that it opened in a pan of hot water at the proper temperature. Don't believe that it was necessary to remove the header tank or much of anything to gain access.
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Old 23-08-2012, 09:54   #48
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Re: Perkins 4.108 Rebuild?

PS: When I replaced the Tstat in my 4-108, the engine got an air lock and wouldnt cool... overheated. I had to re-remove the Tstat and fill with coolant under the Tstat to solve it. If the Tstat is sitting in air, it cant heat up to open.
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Old 23-08-2012, 14:28   #49
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Re: Perkins 4.108 Rebuild?

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Originally Posted by SimonV View Post
I have done my own maintenance on the 4,108 out of necessity and one thing I have found is that a deficiency in one aspect of operation of the engine will induce a deficiency in another aspect. In mine it was over heating, after cleaning the cooling system I removed and cleaned the exhaust/water mixing elbow, this was more than half clogged by coke, this improved the over heating allowing it to breath but temp was still at the higher end of OK. Further investigation revealed the timing was out a smidge. As of now its running fine, without a rebuild.
Exactly, well done maintenace, you emphasise my points in recent reply re maintenance. I have had similar challenges, and like you have done the work, I just do not get that feeling from this case, it may turn out to be something simple which a pro may well find, I sincerely hope so, but knowing as others do what creates oil pressure and or loss of it, plus the other challenges, would be negligent not to advise in the manner I have.
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Old 23-08-2012, 19:24   #50
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Re: Perkins 4.108 Rebuild?

Had a "Voila" moment tonight, thanks largely to the advice from my esteemed forum members. After spending the last couple of days or so cleaning the entire cooling water system, I reversed the raw water pump cover (which was deeply scored), and removed the thermostat (a replacement couldn't be found). Anyway, after a half hour in gear at the dock running at 1500 rpm I never got above 170 degrees! When I tested the old thermostat at home, it never opened even after the water was boiling. I may, or may not, replace the thermostat. I'm not sure I'll even need it in Tampa Bay.

My next hurdle is identifying the source of the Diesel fuel in the oil sump.

Thanks guys.
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Old 23-08-2012, 19:29   #51
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Re: Perkins 4.108 Rebuild?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sapadeni View Post
Had a "Voila" moment tonight, thanks largely to the advice from my esteemed forum members. After spending the last couple of days or so cleaning the entire cooling water system, I reversed the raw water pump cover (which was deeply scored), and removed the thermostat (a replacement couldn't be found). Anyway, after a half hour in gear at the dock running at 1500 rpm I never got above 170 degrees! When I tested the old thermostat at home, it never opened even after the water was boiling. I may, or may not, replace the thermostat. I'm not sure I'll even need it in Tampa Bay.

My next hurdle is identifying the source of the Diesel fuel in the oil sump.

Thanks guys.
One step at a time
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Old 23-08-2012, 20:10   #52
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Re: Perkins 4.108 Rebuild?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sapadeni View Post
Had a "Voila" moment tonight, thanks largely to the advice from my esteemed forum members. After spending the last couple of days or so cleaning the entire cooling water system, I reversed the raw water pump cover (which was deeply scored), and removed the thermostat (a replacement couldn't be found). Anyway, after a half hour in gear at the dock running at 1500 rpm I never got above 170 degrees! When I tested the old thermostat at home, it never opened even after the water was boiling. I may, or may not, replace the thermostat. I'm not sure I'll even need it in Tampa Bay.

My next hurdle is identifying the source of the Diesel fuel in the oil sump.

Thanks guys.
Outstanding! Well done!

A good reminder to separate symptoms and troubleshoot each problem separately even though they may ultimately end up being related.

Let's hope the diesel ingestion turns out to be lift pump - cheaper and easier than the injection pump.

If it were me I would price a lift pump and just change it and monitor for a while. Unless the diaghram leak is obvious I don't know how to troubleshoot. My lift pump was relatively cheap as boat stuff goes at aound $120 bucks.

You can also get a rebuild kit. for most lift pumps. Mine was about $80 and for $40 I decided not to mess with it.

Good luck on the next phase.
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Old 24-08-2012, 08:49   #53
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Re: Perkins 4.108 Rebuild?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sapadeni View Post
Had a "Voila" moment tonight, thanks largely to the advice from my esteemed forum members. After spending the last couple of days or so cleaning the entire cooling water system, I reversed the raw water pump cover (which was deeply scored), and removed the thermostat (a replacement couldn't be found). Anyway, after a half hour in gear at the dock running at 1500 rpm I never got above 170 degrees! When I tested the old thermostat at home, it never opened even after the water was boiling. I may, or may not, replace the thermostat. I'm not sure I'll even need it in Tampa Bay.

My next hurdle is identifying the source of the Diesel fuel in the oil sump.

Thanks guys.
While you might be able to do without the thermostat for the moment, keep in mind that the design for the flow-rate of coolant through your engine was, in part, based upon the assumption of a thermostat. Without, the coolant flow rate will be much faster which impeads the heat exchange process and may work to your disadvantage. Ideally, your engine should operate at a coolant temp of about 180º.

A good source for parts for the Perkins in Tampa is Southeast Power, at 6515 E Adamo Drive (813-623-1551). If you call them with your engine number, they can obtain the right parts within a day or so and at reasonable prices. SE Power is primarily a repair facility serving the trucking and farm machine industry but as Perkins are commonly used in farm equipment applications, they have certified Perkins mechanics that are very knowledgable on staff.

As for fuel in your crank case, sitting and running at idle is not a good indicator. Loading up the engine will increase the fuel flow rate and that's when the problem will reveal itself. Although I dislike replacing parts that could fairly easily be repaired, I agree with others that a replacement of the lift pump would likely be a wise move. I would, however, also obtain a replacement diaphram and valve kit from SE Power/Perkins and rebuild the old pump and store it in a vacuum sealed bag as a spare for the future. At this point, however, I suspect the issue may be the injection pump--as it was in my case about last November.

N'any case, good luck!

FWIW...
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Old 24-08-2012, 09:04   #54
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Re: Perkins 4.108 Rebuild?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
Outstanding! Well done!


If it were me I would price a lift pump and just change it and monitor for a while. Unless the diaghram leak is obvious I don't know how to troubleshoot.

Good luck on the next phase.
When I first started trouble shooting my fuel leak problem I pulled the lift pump off and took it apart to kinda see how it could leak. There is a weep hole under the diaphragm where fuel would drain out before entering the block. But I also found if you hold your finger over one of the holes and blow on the other side, if it holds pressure diaphragm is probably good.
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Old 31-08-2012, 07:21   #55
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Re: Perkins 4.108 Rebuild?

Soooo.....here's the latest. I apear to have the overheating issue resolved. Now onto the fuel-in-the-oil-sump challenge. After changing the oil several days ago I ran for over 5 hours with great oil pressure (40#), great temp., and steady oil level. Yesterday, I ran the engine for 10 minutes and, yes you guessed it, diesel in the sump rising to over 5 times normal dip-stick level. So the diesel fuel into the sump appears to be somewhat sporadic, and not a steady "leak". As suggested I'm going to hit the lift pump first in the morning. After that the injectors (which I'm suspecting may be the problem), and then the injector pump to be rebuilt. Any opiniions.
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Old 31-08-2012, 08:40   #56
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Re: Perkins 4.108 Rebuild?

With 5000 hours of 4108 experience, I'm betting on the injector pump being the source of the fuel. If it was a Yanmar, my money would have been on the lift pump.
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Old 01-09-2012, 18:09   #57
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Re: Perkins 4.108 Rebuild?

Don't disagree with Don but a new lift pump is not a bad investment and the injector inspection is likewise useful. i.e. not wasted money.

Do these first and monitor.

Do the injector pump as a last resort due to relatively bigger bucks...
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Old 09-09-2012, 09:00   #58
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Re: Perkins 4.108 Rebuild?

So here is the latest update. I have pulled my fuel injection pump. Boy, was that fun. You guys were right, I actually invented new swear words getting that inboard cap-head bolt out. The engineer that designed that had to have been a sadist. Anyway, I did notice that the gasket at the base of the pump was red (soaked with diesel fuel ?). I also noted that there is quite a bit of slop in the drive shaft leading into the pump. Based on these observations I'm guessing (hoping) that this IS the source of my diesel getting into my oil sump. I also pulled the 4 injectors which had a significan amount of carbon build up around "sockets" of the injectors in the heads. Some of that carbon dropped down into the cylinders which I'm guessing won't be a problem (?). While removing the pump I noted that the engine serial number was located on the block near the base of the pump and to my surprise the number began with "107". All the documentation I have for the boat records the engine as being a 4.108, does the "107" mean that I have a Perkins 4.107 like I think it does?? How much of a difference is there between the two?

I now plan to send out the pump and injectors to be serviced/rebuilt. I can't find anyone in the Tampa/St. Pete area. Anyone have any suggestions? I hear Trans Atlantic Diesel come up. I've also heard good things about Williams Diesel in Ocala, and Everglades Diesel in Fort Lauderdale. I would like to have it done locally if possible, though.

Thanks for all the help.
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Old 09-09-2012, 11:15   #59
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Re: Perkins 4.108 Rebuild?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sapadeni View Post
So here is the latest update. I have pulled my fuel injection pump. Boy, was that fun. You guys were right, I actually invented new swear words getting that inboard cap-head bolt out. The engineer that designed that had to have been a sadist. Anyway, I did notice that the gasket at the base of the pump was red (soaked with diesel fuel ?). I also noted that there is quite a bit of slop in the drive shaft leading into the pump. Based on these observations I'm guessing (hoping) that this IS the source of my diesel getting into my oil sump. I also pulled the 4 injectors which had a significan amount of carbon build up around "sockets" of the injectors in the heads. Some of that carbon dropped down into the cylinders which I'm guessing won't be a problem (?). While removing the pump I noted that the engine serial number was located on the block near the base of the pump and to my surprise the number began with "107". All the documentation I have for the boat records the engine as being a 4.108, does the "107" mean that I have a Perkins 4.107 like I think it does?? How much of a difference is there between the two?

I now plan to send out the pump and injectors to be serviced/rebuilt. I can't find anyone in the Tampa/St. Pete area. Anyone have any suggestions? I hear Trans Atlantic Diesel come up. I've also heard good things about Williams Diesel in Ocala, and Everglades Diesel in Fort Lauderdale. I would like to have it done locally if possible, though.

Thanks for all the help.
You have found the source of your problem. FOr the rebuild check out:

Southeast Power Systems

6515 Adamo Drive
Tampa, FL 33619

(813) 623-1551


Ensure that you give them the entire engine number as stamped on your block.

While you're at it it would be wise to either rebuild or replace your lift pump and perhaps the high-pressure lines from the injection pump to the injectors. Check them very carefully and if there is rusting, replace them. Trust me. Been there, done that.

FWIW...
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Old 09-09-2012, 12:23   #60
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Re: Perkins 4.108 Rebuild?

SVHYlyte,

Thanks for the post. Have you had any personal experience with Southeast Power? I was going to use them as I would really like to have it down locally, but to be honest, their reviews online were less-than-stellar. I was considering Everglades Diesel out of Ft. Lauderdale (who a close friend and mechanic deals with regularly), or Williams Diesel of Ocala. But like I said, if I can get it done locally I'd rather.
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