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Old 02-06-2009, 21:14   #1
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Perkins 4-108 Raw-Water Check Valve

Hi folks: I am new to this forum and not quite sure where I should post this question. I have a Gulfstar 37 with a Perkins 4-108. Back in the summer of 2008 just before going on vacation I had a problem with an air lock or loss of prime in my raw water cooling, I am not sure what it was. The symptoms were that when I shut down the engine I would not get water out the exhaust upon restarting. I had to remove the outlet hose of the water pump">raw water pump and then she would start pumping again and work fine. I thought it might have been the "check valve" (I guess that's the correct term) that is connected by hose from the back of my exhaust manifold, it sits above the engine, from the check valve a hose goes to my heat exchanger. Since I was short on time I went to a local marina to buy a new valve but they had nothing to match it other than a used one that they really knew nothing about. I had to jury rig it up and it seemed to work fine with one exception. Now I am getting water in my cockpit from the vent at Cruising RPM's. There is a vent hose attached via a "T" fitting from the check valve.
My question is this: Does anyone know where I can purchase the correct "check valve"? Also, can someone send me a picture or diagram of how it should be set up. I would like to put this back together the correct way and I neglected to take a picture of the original set up. Thanks in advance for any help....Frank
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Old 02-06-2009, 22:01   #2
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I have a Gulfstar 37 with a 4-108. I don't understand what you mean by check valve. The hose from the heat exchanger goes through a "high loop" of hose with a vacuum breaker device at the high point, but the other hose from this should not go to the heat exchanger, as it is a small diameter hose that serves to divert any water so it does not spray into the engine compartment. Since the intake for the raw water system is below the water line on a GS 37, there should be no problem with losing prime in the system, which is what you seem to be describing. It almost seems that there is some blockage or incorrect hose setup to get what you describe

If you post a clear picture or two of your hose setup, perhaps we could help you. There is a tremendous amount of experience with the 4.108 on this forum, and several Gulfstar 37's, so we can tell you if your engine is set up correctly if you can post some photos. You may not have taken them before, but posting them as it is cofigured now will help
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Old 03-06-2009, 02:55   #3
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Greetings, and welcome board Frank.

As posted at
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...uals-8758.html

You can find Manuals for the Perkins 4.108
(& 4.107 & 4.99) at:

Shop Manual ➥ http://www.fujiyachts.net/manuals/Pe...p%20Manual.pdf

OR ➥ http://www.bluemoment.com/manuals/Pe...shopManual.pdf

Parts Manual ➥ http://www.fujiyachts.net/manuals/Pe...s%20Manual.pdf

Owner’s Handbook ➥ http://www.fujiyachts.net/manuals/Pe...20Handbook.pdf
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Old 03-06-2009, 05:18   #4
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Thank you JLogan and GordMay. I have already added those manuals to my Favorites. JLogan, I will get down to Amore in the next day or so and take some pictures. Thanks again for the quick response and help.....Frank
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Old 03-06-2009, 08:17   #5
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I believe "Amore" is referring to his Siphon Break. His raw water should flow from this raw water pump, to the siphon break, to the heat exchanger, to the injection nozzel in the mixing elbow and out of the boat through the exhaust. The siphon break vent should open when there is no pressure in the water line to allow air to enter the system and, of course, break the siphoning action to prevent water flooding his engine. When the engine is running, and the raw water system is pressurized, the vent--typically a "duck bill" not unlike the joker valve on a head--should be closed by the pressure of the water flow. I suspect all he needs do is remove the cap from the top of the siphon break and clean or replace the valve. In most cases water should not be able to pass through that valve although it was not uncommon on some of the older siphon valves and many simply ignored the matter or relied on the water stream as a "tell-tale" for flow through the system--similar to the tell-tale on an outboard.

If he is loosing the prime on his raw water pump, that tells me that either the impellor, or the cam plate, or the wear plates in his pump are worn-out preventing the pump from developing sufficient suction to draw water. In theory, there should be no point in the pump cycle on the 4-108 when there is an unsealed connection between the intake and discharge sides of the pump that would permit the standing water in the line to drain down but of course, if any of these parts are worn or damaged, it will.

FWIW...
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Old 03-06-2009, 09:20   #6
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If he has a check valve where he describes, it sounds like the PO has tried to solve this problem before.....?
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Old 03-06-2009, 11:33   #7
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Assuming that the pump is in good shape I would look at the water heater. Check the connections from the engine to the heater as well as all of the connections on the engine. They are usually easy to spot, look for salt formations around the connections. If air is leaking back in when the engine is shut down the water pump would have a hard time maintaining a prime. Our Gulfstar was originally equipped with some kind of home made by Gulfstar siphon break. When I rebuilt the engine I replaced it with a Vetus that uses a hose instead of a valve. I will try and post some pictures.

Since we are based in Mexico we removed the water heater several years ago and never missed it.
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Old 03-06-2009, 11:35   #8
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hmmmm.... good point, if the water heater is above the engine level there could be air in it... Oh.... never mind, this is a raw water issue....
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Old 03-06-2009, 12:27   #9
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Slacker--With all due respect, it would be very unusual for raw water to be passed through a hot water heater. That circuit is normally from the fresh water/coolent side of the heat exchange system. Raw water isn't in the heat exchanger long enough to pick up much heat or it wouldn't provide enough cooling effect to the fresh water side and so wouldn't have the ability to transfer much to a hot water heater.

(Parentheticallly, if one has a hot water system and happens to experience engine overheating, a quick way to help cool the engine is to run off a few gallons of hot water. The cool fresh water entering the hot water heater will help bring down the temperature of the engine pretty quickly. Been there, done that, got the T-Shirt...)

FWIW...
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Old 03-06-2009, 19:22   #10
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Me thinks the siphon break is in the wong spot

Intake-Strainer-Pump-Heat Exchanger-High Loop-Siphon Break-Exhaust Elbow
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Old 03-06-2009, 19:56   #11
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antisiphon

Yea. You are right HyLyte. Thats what I get for mixing work with surfing. Brain fade. However, the rest is still valid. Check all of the connections.
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Old 03-06-2009, 21:01   #12
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pump > high loop/siphon break > heat exchanger?

Now you've got me worried.

My understanding is that the siphon break is there to stop water from the inlet seacock from flowing to the exhaust valves via the water injection point.

After the pump doesn't it need to loop up above the waterline to the siphon break and then to the heat exchanger (provided the heat exchanger is integral with the water injection)?

I'm planning (eventually) to put in a small tube with a constriction (valve or tap) so that a small amount of water is always visibly coming through.
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Old 03-06-2009, 21:52   #13
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Siphon Break is between the outlet of the Heat Exchanger and the injection point on the exhaust.

PP 377-380 Boatowners Mechanical and Electrical Manual (Calder)
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Old 04-06-2009, 07:55   #14
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Chief--

Whether the siphon break precedes or follows the heat exchanger depends upon the model of the 4-108. In the low-line version it's usually before as there is so little space between the discharge oriface from the rear heat exchanger boot and the injection nozzel on the mixing elbow. I believe the low-line model was used on the Gulfstar as it was on our boat. However, the foregoing is irrelevant to Amore's problem, which I suspect is more likely a raw water pump seal issue, no?

FWIW...
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Old 04-06-2009, 17:01   #15
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Thanks for all the suggestions

I am going to take a picture of my current "cob job" set up when I get back down to the boat tomorrow and then post it.
Slacker: I do remember when I took this apart last year that it looked to be a homemade contraption. I do not know what a "Vetus" is but I would be interested in hearing or seeing how yours is set up on your Gulfstar.
I am also going to post exactly where these hoses come from and go to. By the way, I never have had an overheat problem and I replaced the raw water pump 2 seasons ago. We use the engine less than 100 hrs per season.
Thanks again for all this help......Frank
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